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Old 3rd May 2008, 09:22 PM   #1
wpaule is offline wpaule  Canada
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Default Swan 305 sub design help needed

I have four Swan 305's that I want to use to make a pair of subs to go with my aria 5 accutron's. I was thinking of running the pairs face to face wired out of phase and either forward firing, or in a down firing configuration. I am wanting to use the natural @200hz rolloff of each to avoid active crossovers. I am newly back to speaker issues, so any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

cheers, Paul
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Old 4th May 2008, 03:37 PM   #2
GM is offline GM  United States
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Hmm, all things considered, a TQWT seems a good choice since it's to be isobaric, otherwise requiring an exceptionally long vent to tune it low enough for high SQ. Then again, if corner loaded you can get by with a low Qtc sealed alignment. Also, due to the driver's high compliance/mass, it's a poor candidate for up/down firing IMO and I recommend heavily damping the basket/motor to keep any turbulence from becoming audible if using a 'clamshell' mounting.

GM
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Old 4th May 2008, 03:51 PM   #3
Ron E is offline Ron E  United States
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I wouldn't downfire. With those drivers I would probably go sealed and not isobaric, then use a linkwitz transform to extend the bass if desired. Marchand sells an adjustable bass EQ called the "bassis". Make them into integral stands for your Arias - that could be nice...
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Old 4th May 2008, 04:38 PM   #4
wpaule is offline wpaule  Canada
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Thank you very much for the replies. The consensus is against down firing. Could you elaborate on your recommendations against isobaric?

Thanks in advance.

cheers, Paul
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Old 5th May 2008, 02:27 PM   #5
Ron E is offline Ron E  United States
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All Isobaric does is waste a woofer in order to make the box smaller.
You can make the box smaller and compensate in different ways, like Linkwitz transform. If you are stuck on isobaric and want to avoid a crossover, it might be fun to make a 4th or 6th order bandpass...use a PR instead of ports to reduce out of band problems.

Maybe you should start over and define your goals - extension, size, SPL. Elaborate on your constraints and associated equipment, etc...

TQWP's are usually rather large for the extension you get out of them, IMO. One of those coupled pipe subs would be interesting, no? I think your woofers have nearly the right parameters to do a LAB Horn
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Old 5th May 2008, 05:18 PM   #6
wpaule is offline wpaule  Canada
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Thanks for the reply. My intention is to utilise the drivers I have in reasonable sized boxes to handle the bottom end that my Aria 5 Accuton's can't. I was under the impression that a face to face isobaric had a natural rolloff at about 200hz, and my intention was to use that to my advantage and use a passive network to limit the Arias to above 200hz. This is to be used on the living room of a one bedroom apartment, so going to sonic tubes etc is out of the question.. My apologies ahead of time for any technical errors I make. I am going from memory on some of this stuff, and all my speaker building books are in storage.

What other important pieces of information am I missing?

Thanks again.

cheers, Paul
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Old 5th May 2008, 08:35 PM   #7
Ron E is offline Ron E  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by wpaule
Thanks for the reply. My intention is to utilise the drivers I have in reasonable sized boxes.....
I was under the impression that a face to face isobaric had a natural rolloff at about 200hz, and my intention was to use that to my advantage and use a passive network to limit the Arias to above 200hz. This is to be used on the living room of a one bedroom apartment,

What other important pieces of information am I missing?
First off, any notion that a clamshell arrangement is some magical crossover device should be quelled right now. A bandpass will do that, but will have out of band issues without a crossover unless you use PR's. Ports in Bandpass enclosures will ring.

What is reasonable size? I lived in a studio (efficiency) apartment with 2x 2 cubic foot speakers. Your tolerance might be less or more.

Given it is apartment living, modest SPL is probably fine.

If the subs have a different sensitivity than your Aria5's, how will you manage that? Aren't Arias fairly sensitive?

Are you driving them with a separate amp or are you connecting arias to "A" and sub to "B" of a receiver? If you already have a separate amp, quit messing around and get an active crossover already. Crossing your Aria woofers over at 200Hz might be a challenge passively and cost more than an active XO anyway. You will likely need a resonant peak filter, depending on how high the impedance peaks are on your Aria's. That, and quality big woofer XO inductors and caps aren't cheap....

If I were you I would design the subs as integral stands for your Arias - they take up less space that way, then figure out how much volume you have to work with from an aesthetic standpoint. Then decide on box design based on that. Side firing probably won't work well at 200Hz, so that is out, IMO.
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Old 6th May 2008, 01:14 AM   #8
wpaule is offline wpaule  Canada
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Thanks for the time and attention.

I am going to biamp them with full range going to the subs, and the satellite amps have already been modified to rolloff below 200hz.

I intend to use these as stands for the arias, so around 16" across the front, up to 2' deep and 2' plus a few inches are about what the available space can tolerate.

Differences in sensativity will be dealt with by padding the inputs of the amps if necessary. As I understand the Arias are rated at 90db sensitivity as are the Swan 305's.

Appreciate the input on relying on the configuration for the desired cutoff.

Am I answering your questions? Your patience is appreciated.

cheers, Paul
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Old 6th May 2008, 01:42 AM   #9
GM is offline GM  United States
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OK, since you have four drivers and ~4 ft^3 net available, mount two in a sealed bipole layout and use a Linkwitz transform to extend the bass/change its Qtc if desired as Ron noted.

GM
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Old 6th May 2008, 02:17 AM   #10
Ron E is offline Ron E  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by GM
OK, since you have four drivers and ~4 ft^3 net available, mount two in a sealed bipole layout and use a Linkwitz transform to extend the bass/change its Qtc if desired
With that much volume you can do all kinds of neat things. Explore your options.
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