Peerless XXSL 10" Small enclosure
Hi!
I'm about to make two small subs using the 8ohm XXLS 10" from peerless (830843). I've calculated that an internal volume of 31,5 liters will be sufficient. I would perfer 40-50 liters, but "space limitations" persuade me to go even smaller; 31,5.
My calculations tells me that with a +6db boost @ 25hz and lowpass @ 40-50hz I will end up with a not-ideal, but ok curve (it will require some bad-*** amp)
Do any of you agree, or is it just silly to even think about it?
and by the way; I'm thinking maybe a PR as well; The peerless 10" XLS passive radiator. Will have some advantage over the closed box? My calculations show a slightly increase in sensitivity, but about the same response curve. I plan to make a hole for the PR, but put a MDF piece there to start with..., and possibly make a "signature" versjon later when I get the $$$ to buy me the PRs. ... just like Audiovector and their Mi-sub and Mi-sub signature.
Silly, or ok? hot or not? yay or... no?
I'm not looking for a killer sub..., only some nice tight bass...
Yes, I did search the forum.., but found only projects involving bigger enclosures.
Hi!
I'm about to make two small subs using the 8ohm XXLS 10" from peerless (830843). I've calculated that an internal volume of 31,5 liters will be sufficient. I would perfer 40-50 liters, but "space limitations" persuade me to go even smaller; 31,5.
My calculations tells me that with a +6db boost @ 25hz and lowpass @ 40-50hz I will end up with a not-ideal, but ok curve (it will require some bad-*** amp)
Do any of you agree, or is it just silly to even think about it?
and by the way; I'm thinking maybe a PR as well; The peerless 10" XLS passive radiator. Will have some advantage over the closed box? My calculations show a slightly increase in sensitivity, but about the same response curve. I plan to make a hole for the PR, but put a MDF piece there to start with..., and possibly make a "signature" versjon later when I get the $$$ to buy me the PRs. ... just like Audiovector and their Mi-sub and Mi-sub signature.
Silly, or ok? hot or not? yay or... no?
I'm not looking for a killer sub..., only some nice tight bass...
Yes, I did search the forum.., but found only projects involving bigger enclosures.
btw; I just started the fabrication of the enclosures..., so if it's completely stupid... I'll be sorry to hear that.... 
Either way; Here are some pictures of the front and back baffles... and the "dymmy" that can be replaced by a PR later on.
Some images ..:
Either way; Here are some pictures of the front and back baffles... and the "dymmy" that can be replaced by a PR later on.
Some images ..:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi,
I did some exercises for you. This might be a good start:
one is an isobarik (w/two subs) and 63L (using the 2x31.5L), check the blue line;
another is a double enclosure (1x31.5L), one sub with passive radiator (green line), this for one box and I used here the XLS-269-S265 with 265gr.
http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=3341
(note that PRs are not optimized or calculated for optimum size and weight, were just introduced on WinISD software. Protect under 18Hz for max. cone excursion in both cases)
I did some exercises for you. This might be a good start:
one is an isobarik (w/two subs) and 63L (using the 2x31.5L), check the blue line;
another is a double enclosure (1x31.5L), one sub with passive radiator (green line), this for one box and I used here the XLS-269-S265 with 265gr.
http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=3341
(note that PRs are not optimized or calculated for optimum size and weight, were just introduced on WinISD software. Protect under 18Hz for max. cone excursion in both cases)
Attachments
A very good driver supposed to be used in a sub-optimized IMO too small cabinet.
IMO, Good use of this driver starts with a closed box of no less than 58 L.
Low passing at 40-50 Hz precisely where f-3dB and fc are situated makes the performance of this design even worse and + 6dB at 25 Hz as stated, will be +12 dB at 12.5 and so on unless you consider use a LT or similar technique to prevent excessive cone excursions at very low frequencies.
No, not with the suggested driver and no other advantage than the possibility to use a smaller box, and IMO will suffer degraded sound quality even if the more suitable driver 830842 is used.
IMO your design suggestion works contradictive to tight bass, see picture 1(2).
Of course, because most people here are hunting for good sounding subs and using LT to shrink the need for larger volumes, see picture 2(2).
b
1(2)
Attachments
Well.... That sucked. 
That explains why I've never seen this driver in such a small box before...
Well... Even if it's against all reason..., and the executives at Peerless will turn in their beds; I'll try. The only thing I'm loosing is some boxes that seems to turn out better than anything I've ever made before... And the work involved... (but hey; its fun though!).
And maybe, some day; I might find some drivers who will acctually enjoy the somwhat tight enviroment..., and someday I might not give a crap about the size and make them big enough to make the drivers really play like they want to.
Thanx for providing me with this information. I have never really understood most of the T/S parameters..., but I'm really trying
Anyway; I'll keep posting pictures while I'm working.., so please continue to read this post and please ignore the foolishness of making a box not suited at all.
Thanks!
That explains why I've never seen this driver in such a small box before...
Well... Even if it's against all reason..., and the executives at Peerless will turn in their beds; I'll try. The only thing I'm loosing is some boxes that seems to turn out better than anything I've ever made before... And the work involved... (but hey; its fun though!).
And maybe, some day; I might find some drivers who will acctually enjoy the somwhat tight enviroment..., and someday I might not give a crap about the size and make them big enough to make the drivers really play like they want to.
Thanx for providing me with this information. I have never really understood most of the T/S parameters..., but I'm really trying
Anyway; I'll keep posting pictures while I'm working.., so please continue to read this post and please ignore the foolishness of making a box not suited at all.
Thanks!
sreten said:
Hi,
I suspect the intention is a Q=2 high pass filter @ 25Hz.
The intention is "6db boost" which are to be found on most sub-amps like the hypex ones. Correct use of this, together with the lo-pass filter could possibly work to my advantage?
(I might also add that I bought the drivers some time ago..., but they are just laying here... And I've got the amps.., so why not give it a try?)
XLS vs. XXLS
Transfer function magnitude for both, w/ a PR similar in both cases (see fig.). Considering 150W for both drivers. The Max. SPL output is very similar to this one, for both, considering the same power simulation in WinISD.
Peerless XLS10 Subwoofer with Passive Radiator
http://www.vikash.info/audio/xls10/
KI said:
Transfer function magnitude for both, w/ a PR similar in both cases (see fig.). Considering 150W for both drivers. The Max. SPL output is very similar to this one, for both, considering the same power simulation in WinISD.
Peerless XLS10 Subwoofer with Passive Radiator
http://www.vikash.info/audio/xls10/
Attachments
It seems to me that the XXLS have a better output along the lower frequencies. I show a simulation for; 1. XLS/pr, 2. XLS/vented, 3. XLS w/2pr, 4. XXLS&pr in a double size box.
What you can do is to join the two boxes by their passive radiators holes (double size 63L box) and use a XXLS-269-8+8 (830846) driver (here http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=3524) and a passive radiator on the place of the other driver of the double size box (total 4 driver holes). Don't glue the two boxes, you can use lag bolts or unbrako type and a pvc type sheet or other (1 or 2 mm cork, neoprene) compressed between the two boxes for air hermetics.
PR cone excursion: 3. (blue) is ok; two passive radiators. For red and green lines (1. and 4. with one passive radiator) protect under 25Hz against bigger cone excursions.
Drivers; protect under 20Hz against cone excursion for this setup (all four on this post).
What you can do is to join the two boxes by their passive radiators holes (double size 63L box) and use a XXLS-269-8+8 (830846) driver (here http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=3524) and a passive radiator on the place of the other driver of the double size box (total 4 driver holes). Don't glue the two boxes, you can use lag bolts or unbrako type and a pvc type sheet or other (1 or 2 mm cork, neoprene) compressed between the two boxes for air hermetics.
PR cone excursion: 3. (blue) is ok; two passive radiators. For red and green lines (1. and 4. with one passive radiator) protect under 25Hz against bigger cone excursions.
Drivers; protect under 20Hz against cone excursion for this setup (all four on this post).
Attachments
Well... I'm sitting here wondering what to do.
two alternatives: Sell the XXLS and buy me some XLS and PR's... or Build me some boxes to fit the XXLS..., but then again the question remains;
What would make the XXLS sing? I've seen some projects using 60l boxes; Does anyone have any recomendations?
two alternatives: Sell the XXLS and buy me some XLS and PR's... or Build me some boxes to fit the XXLS..., but then again the question remains;
What would make the XXLS sing? I've seen some projects using 60l boxes; Does anyone have any recomendations?
Hi,
I'd say you are being hauled over the coals for nothing.
If you stuff your box properly internal volume can increase up to
40%, though I do not know the optimum stuffing, shown is 20%.
The red 20% curve deviates by less than 1dB from 55L.
There is nothing dreadful about a Q = 0.8 alignment if you purposefully
want a small box. The +6dB boost at 25hz is in the correct ballpark
as long as it is a high pass filter (variable Q / boost would be nice,
perhaps a little lower boost). Your low pass frequency is also low
which will negate the slight upper bass rise, all in all your first post
seems quite sensible.
/sreten.
I'd say you are being hauled over the coals for nothing.
If you stuff your box properly internal volume can increase up to
40%, though I do not know the optimum stuffing, shown is 20%.
The red 20% curve deviates by less than 1dB from 55L.
There is nothing dreadful about a Q = 0.8 alignment if you purposefully
want a small box. The +6dB boost at 25hz is in the correct ballpark
as long as it is a high pass filter (variable Q / boost would be nice,
perhaps a little lower boost). Your low pass frequency is also low
which will negate the slight upper bass rise, all in all your first post
seems quite sensible.
/sreten.Attachments
Thank you for your words of encouragement...
I've now completed the boxes; and here are som of the pictures of the production:
The completed box (internal cable; Kimber KWIK-16):
Some filler and grinding...:
Hanging in my garage after I applied primer. Ready for paint;
I've now completed the boxes; and here are som of the pictures of the production:
The completed box (internal cable; Kimber KWIK-16):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Some filler and grinding...:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hanging in my garage after I applied primer. Ready for paint;
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It's 31 liter Closed box. ..., -1 liter or so because of the magnet...
The paint is just regular spray paint.... 2 layers of primer..., and then... 5-6 layers of black paint with clear finish. It's not perfect..., but it looks good on the pictures. There are some areas that's not completely blank.., but it's close enough.
The paint is just regular spray paint.... 2 layers of primer..., and then... 5-6 layers of black paint with clear finish. It's not perfect..., but it looks good on the pictures. There are some areas that's not completely blank.., but it's close enough.
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