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Old 8th July 2009, 08:07 AM   #691
Jmmlc is offline Jmmlc  France
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HORNRESP VERSION 23.00

Hello David,

Yes, it is better to use the newer version of the polarity check as it analyses the phase over the useful bandwith.

Best regards from Paris, France

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h


Quote:
Originally posted by David McBean


Hi Jean-Michel,

I had been using the original code you sent me:

%************************************
% set phase between -pi and +pi for graph output
%************************************

if abs(PUNW(Imag1))<pi/2.5;
PUNW=mod(PUNW+pi, 2*pi)-pi;
else
PUNW=mod(PUNW, 2*pi)-pi;
end

I will change to the new code. Thanks.

Kind regards,

David
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Old 9th July 2009, 06:31 AM   #692
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HORNRESP VERSION 23.00

Quote:
Originally posted by Jmmlc
Yes, it is better to use the newer version of the polarity check as it analyses the phase over the useful bandwith.
Hi Jean-Michel,

Thanks. Product Number 2300-090709 containing the newer code has just been released.

Kind regards,

David
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Old 9th July 2009, 07:15 AM   #693
Jmmlc is offline Jmmlc  France
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Hello David,

As we can see looking at the attached phase curve, the polarity check is OK in the new version of Hornresp.

Thank you for that.

Best regards from Paris, France

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Attached Images
File Type: gif phase_2.gif (21.4 KB, 226 views)
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Old 9th July 2009, 08:05 AM   #694
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Hi Jean-Michel,


Quote:
Originally posted by Jmmlc
As we can see looking at the attached phase curve, the polarity check is OK in the new version of Hornresp.
Excellent.


Quote:
Originally posted by Jmmlc
Thank you for that.
Thank you, for providing the necessary code :-).

Kind regards,

David
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Old 10th July 2009, 02:51 AM   #695
pjanda1 is offline pjanda1  United States
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David,

I'm a Mac user, and I'm thinking of buying an old PC to run HR. What is the oldest/slowest machine you'd think adequate? I may get something decent, but if I can find a $50 machine that'll do it, I'd be happy.

pj
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Old 10th July 2009, 04:14 AM   #696
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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Hi David

In product 2300-090709 I still get almost 0 degree phase shift at 10Hz for a small sealed box that rolls off well above 10Hz, or in a plain front loaded horn also rolling off well above 10Hz.

I think phase is still wrong, at least polarity reversed.
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Old 10th July 2009, 04:36 AM   #697
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Quote:
Originally posted by pjanda1
David,

I'm a Mac user, and I'm thinking of buying an old PC to run HR. What is the oldest/slowest machine you'd think adequate? I may get something decent, but if I can find a $50 machine that'll do it, I'd be happy.

pj
If you have a recent MAC with Intel-CPU, try one of the virtual-PC techologies like parallels, vmware, etc... Simply install a windows within and you´re good to go. A bootcamp-variant should work, too and maybe you get hornresp running directly within your MAC environment via Wine, I remember some Linux-People doing it this way, so you should be ok on a MAC, too, since WINE is available...
Give me a sign if you need help, then I´ll take a hornresp copy up to the office to the MAC and see if I can fiddle something together
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Old 10th July 2009, 06:45 AM   #698
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Quote:
Originally posted by pjanda1
What is the oldest/slowest machine you'd think adequate?
Hi pj,

If you can't get Hornresp to run on your Mac using one of Sabbelbacke's suggested methods, then any PC having Windows 95 or later as an Operating System should be okay.

Kind regards,

David
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Old 10th July 2009, 06:55 AM   #699
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Hi Jean-Michel,

Would you care to comment on Eva's statement below?


Quote:
Originally posted by Eva
In product 2300-090709 I still get almost 0 degree phase shift at 10Hz for a small sealed box that rolls off well above 10Hz, or in a plain front loaded horn also rolling off well above 10Hz. I think phase is still wrong, at least polarity reversed.
As you know, I am no expert when it comes to "corrected" phase :-).

Thanks.

Kind regards,

David
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Old 10th July 2009, 08:38 AM   #700
Jmmlc is offline Jmmlc  France
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Hello David,

For closed box simulated by Hornresp the phase at frequency lower than the cut-off is OK (raises over +180degrees when frequency decreases, for f<10Hz) but this requires that internal resonances inside the box are masked or damped using a thick layer of damping material (example given TAL = 10cm). In the case damping is inefficient to damp the internal resonance of the box, then we may see on the response curve one or several thin deep hole(s) . In that case the mean group delay inside the useful bandwith is much affetced by the resonance and even the definition of the frequency limits of the useful bandwith are questionable. The solution is to mask the internal resonances of the box or to use a thicker damping inside the box.

The reason why someone could have some interest in the knowledge of the true polarity of the signal out of the useful bandwith is not clear to me. Even I cannot imagine this is somewhat useful except to compare to a theorical model.
The "modified" phase graph in Hornresp is a tool the goal of which is to facilitate to everyone the optimisation of a given horn/enclosure. I think that as it is, this tool reaches its goal.

But we can imagine an elegant solution to the problem raised by Eva. When the polarity check module detects a phase inversion inside the useful bandwith, then 180 degrees should be added to the values of the marks on the vertical axis. You'll find an example in the attached graph. Another simpler solution should be that the polarity could be written near the applied delay at the top of the modified phase graph. (Eventually a phase inversion button should be eventually added to the delay cursor control in the "tools")

Best regards from Paris, France

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h


Quote:
Originally posted by David McBean
Hi Jean-Michel,

Would you care to comment on Eva's statement below?




As you know, I am no expert when it comes to "corrected" phase :-).

Thanks.

Kind regards,

David
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File Type: gif phase_eva.gif (30.5 KB, 164 views)
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