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Old 8th November 2011, 04:20 AM   #2411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmmlc View Post
Hello David,

Too bad it cannot be done on S (and L) because one of the negative consequences is the impossibility to design a Le Cléac'h horn having an Fc lesser than 80Hz...

Best regards from Paris, France

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Hi Jean-Michel,

I managed to get down to a cutoff frequency of 54 hertz using worst-case conditions of S1 = 0.01, T = 0.00 and Fta = 180.00 - see attached screenprint.

Similar to Vtc, the S2 limit could perhaps be increased to 999999.9. This would allow a minimum cutoff frequency of 18 Hz.

What do you think - would it be worth doing?

Kind regards,

David
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Old 8th November 2011, 04:24 AM   #2412
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Originally Posted by GM View Post
Mine's fine.
Thanks GM.

Kind regards,

David
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Old 8th November 2011, 04:33 AM   #2413
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Hi Zero D,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero D View Post
I think i know what you're going to say though, & it begins with - It's not .........
Not necessarily - see my reply to Jean-Michel's post... :-).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero D View Post

I'm using XP/SP2 & this is Exactly how it appears to me.
Thanks for the feedback.

Kind regards,

David
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Old 8th November 2011, 08:49 AM   #2414
Jmmlc is offline Jmmlc  France
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Hello David,


Here in France there is several large Le Cléac'h bass horns ("stand" type) that I helped to calculate and design and which have cutoff frequency as low as 16Hz.

For sure it is very rare to have to design such low Fc bass horns but the question of the Hornresp inability to calculate Le Cléac'h horns having Fc lower than 80Hz and FTA > 180 degrees has been often mentionned to me.

Best regards from Paris, France

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h


Quote:
Originally Posted by David McBean View Post
Hi Jean-Michel,

I managed to get down to a cutoff frequency of 54 hertz using worst-case conditions of S1 = 0.01, T = 0.00 and Fta = 180.00 - see attached screenprint.

Similar to Vtc, the S2 limit could perhaps be increased to 999999.9. This would allow a minimum cutoff frequency of 18 Hz.

What do you think - would it be worth doing?

Kind regards,

David
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Old 8th November 2011, 12:24 PM   #2415
Mark Kravchenko
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Here here!

I to would appreciate the ability to knock off a couple big boy LeCleach horns. I used Jean-Michels spreadsheet but Hornresp is so much more fun to play with. Is the math and or changes really that difficult or am I missing something?

Update on Particle velocity.

I have received a wonderful anemometer that seems to be quite accurate so with that being the case I'm working on a few designs of various types and sizes that I will put to the test. It would be oh so nice if all adds up. I have a horn design that I'm hoping will be a pocket rocket. As in just small enough to work without to much turbulence.

Back to the laboratory Igor...... Yess Master yes Master!
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Old 8th November 2011, 02:03 PM   #2416
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Hi Hornresp experts,

I have a question.

How do I even out the response in the calculation below? I have tried altering all the different parameters that I know of(which isnt that many to be honest). I understand that making a midbass horn using a 15" might be tricky. Is this a typical response in 15" midbass horns? Will the peaks/lows be heard in real life? If I change to 1 x pi the response is flatter but the horn contour will be round so i guess 2 x pi will be more correct.

Click the image to open in full size.

Anyone knows?

Regards
Marcus
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Old 8th November 2011, 04:34 PM   #2417
Zero D is offline Zero D  United Kingdom
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Hi, i'm not an HR expert but the fr +/- 1-1/2 dB response you've achieved between 90Hz - 600Hz is nothing to be ashamed of, in fact just the opposite A lot of non horns are worse than that ! Those peaks you speak of won't be heard IMO, nor will the dips

As you're aware, 15's don't usually work effectively as high as smaller diameter drivers, but some are better than others.

Also it depends what f's you want to Xover at, both high & low ?
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Old 8th November 2011, 04:56 PM   #2418
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Zero D,

Thank you for your reply!

I will be crossing att 100Hz(B&C TH) and 500Hz(320Hz trac jbl 2441). The 416 drivers I have where previously used in an Altec Valencia crossed at 800Hz, so hopefully that wont be a problem. I have read multiple times though that you are suppose to have a flat response one octave over the cutoff frequency. There arent very much over 500Hz on the graph as far as I can tell.

Another question... Are you suppose to use 2 x pi when simulating round midbass horns? Arent they are dangerously close to free space? They are quite close to the ground but not very close to the wall behind the speaker.

Regards
Marcus
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Old 8th November 2011, 06:37 PM   #2419
Zero D is offline Zero D  United Kingdom
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Quote:
I will be crossing att 100Hz(B&C TH) and 500Hz(320Hz trac jbl 2441). The 416 drivers I have where previously used in an Altec Valencia crossed at 800Hz, so hopefully that wont be a problem.
OK

Quote:
I have read multiple times though that you are suppose to have a flat response one octave over the cutoff frequency.
And below too, ideally that is. But you'd be amazed at how well systems "can" actually sound in spite of that Will you be using an Active Xover ? If so you, depending on which one, you should be able to select different slopes etc for each bandwith, to better integrate the Xover points etc. Also you will be able to match the SPL's for each.

I would experiment with the Sliders in HR & see how a wider bandwith design shapes up. I guess the SPL will reduce, but this can be compensated for in an Active system

Quote:
Another question... Are you suppose to use 2 x pi when simulating round midbass horns? Arent they are dangerously close to free space? They are quite close to the ground but not very close to the wall behind the speaker.
The good thing is, there's NO law that forces you to do something a particular way If it works, it works
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Old 8th November 2011, 07:58 PM   #2420
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Zero D,

As a matter of fact I have been thinking of taking the easy way and buy myself an active crossover to begin with. Configure the system and try different levels and crossover points and slops. It seems so much easier than configure passive components. I might possibly change to passive crossovers in the higher registers later on, when Ive come up with a system that I like. Another positive feature with an active Xover is that you could easily adjust the sound for different inputs and recording qualities which is a plus. I have a feeling though that the sound suffers a little with an active Xover. I havnt reasearched the active Xover market. You have any recommendations? (4 way i guess)

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