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Old 18th July 2011, 10:44 AM   #2011
bjorno is offline bjorno  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorno View Post
I saw that too but more important is that the T/S parameters are way off.
Reason for this is probably from the advertised Cms value that is not consistent compared to other driver data.

b
Rectifying a cut and past fault in the picture here above

b
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Old 18th July 2011, 11:27 AM   #2012
blo06 is offline blo06  France
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Xoc1 ,bjorno,

thx for your answers !



Regards
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Old 18th July 2011, 11:58 AM   #2013
Mark Kravchenko --- www.kravchenko-audio.com
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In the spirit of looking for improvements in Hornresp.

Maybe this already exists and I have not found it...

Is there a place where Hornresp list vent air velocity when simulating a ported enclosure?
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Old 19th July 2011, 06:51 AM   #2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blo06 View Post
here they are.
Hi blo06,

Thanks for the additional information. The following changes are required to the Hornresp input parameter values to make them equivalent to the given WinISD values.

Cms - From 7,70E-01 to 7,66E-04
Rms - From 1,79 to 1,98
Mmd - From 11,50 to 9,81

Ap - From 10,20 to 81,71

With these changes the Hornresp Helmholtz resonance frequency becomes 32,40 hertz compared to the WinISD value of 32,36 hertz.

Kind regards,

David
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File Type: png Parameters.png (6.7 KB, 147 views)
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Old 19th July 2011, 11:48 AM   #2015
bjorno is offline bjorno  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David McBean View Post
..The following changes are required to the Hornresp input parameter values to make them equivalent to the given WinISD values.
Hi,FYI

No doubt that HR is a good and reliable predictor of ported boxes and IMO surpasses WinISD too but I think the provided T/S is off. See the picture:

b
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Last edited by bjorno; 19th July 2011 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 19th July 2011, 12:03 PM   #2016
blo06 is offline blo06  France
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Hi David,

I get a better picture about the numbers. But it's not easy to get the right ones.

I got them from the vendor site
in french but all the same :

Impédance (Z) 8 Ω
Fréquence résonance (fs) 50 Hz
Bande passante maximale f3-15000 Hz
Puissance maximale 70 WMAX
Puissance nominale (P) 35 WRMS
Pression sonore moyenne (1 W/1 m) 92 dB
Compliance susp. (Cms) 0,77 mm/N
Masse mobile (Mms) 11,5 g
Surtension méca. (Qms) 1,96
Surtension élec. (Qes) 0,7
Fact. surtension total (Qts) 0,52
Volume équ. (VAS) 48 l
Résistance DC. (Re) 7,2 Ω
Facteur de force (BxL) 6,1 Tm
Inductance bobine (Le) 0,3 mH
Diamètre bobine 25,5 mm
Support bobine Alu
Excursion linéaire (XMAX) ±1,6 mm
Surface d'émission (Sd) 210 cm2
Poids aimant 17,7 oz.
Poids 1,3 kg


But even with that, it can be tricky to get the good numbers. So I fill the HR boxes with double clicking and answering the questions. This way
CMS = 7,63E-04
MMD = 11,53
BL = 6,55
RMS = 2.13
...

and of course the SPL response looks a bit different than with your numbers... How did you get them ?

So what to do ?

Anyway, I get a better picture of your (+++++) software, and begin to use it with better results.

Thanks for all.

Regards.
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Old 19th July 2011, 06:57 PM   #2017
Kolbrek is offline Kolbrek  Norway
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Hi,

Another reason for the differences between Hornresp and WinIsd is that Hornresp doesn't take box losses (wall leakage mostly, I think) into account (correct me if I'm wrong, David). These losses are often added in bass reflex models by a Q-factor QL. I think the value used in WinIsd is QL = 7, while in hornresp the equivalent would be to set QL=infinity. The significance of this depends on the Q-values in other parts of the system.

I suspect WinIsd uses the transfer functions given by Small, Thiele, Leach etc. to calculate the response. Hornresp uses a more sophisticated model.

Bjørn
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Old 19th July 2011, 10:04 PM   #2018
jogi59 is offline jogi59  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolbrek View Post
I think the value used in WinIsd is QL = 7
WinISD uses following Q-Values
Click the image to open in full size.
You can change them by clicking on "Advanced->"
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Old 20th July 2011, 06:39 AM   #2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blo06 View Post
and of course the SPL response looks a bit different than with your numbers... How did you get them ?
Hi blo06,

Using the WinISD driver parameter values you provided I simply generated the unknown electro-mechanical values from the equivalent Thiele-Small parameters using the Hornresp 'Calculate Parameter' tool.

I used the following given values:

Sd = 210,00
Bl = 6,10
Le = 0,30
Re = 7,20

And calculated:

Cms from Sd and Vas.
Mmd from Sd, Cms and fs.
Rms from Cms, fs and Qms.

Kind regards,

David
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Old 20th July 2011, 06:51 AM   #2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolbrek View Post
Another reason for the differences between Hornresp and WinIsd is that Hornresp doesn't take box losses (wall leakage mostly, I think) into account.
Hi Bjørn,

Thanks for pointing this out.

Kind regards,

David
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