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Old 10th February 2011, 11:47 PM   #1641
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It's a combination of voltage (power) and excursion limitations that you input. So at different frequencies, different limits might apply creating an odd looking curve.
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Old 11th February 2011, 12:11 AM   #1642
soho54 is offline soho54  United States
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Think of it as two graphs in one. You set an Xmax limit, and a Voltage limit.

HR then adds Voltage at each frequency until one of the two limits is reached. If it runs out of Xmax first it is indicated by a Red line point. If it hits the Voltage limit first it is marked Black.
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Old 11th February 2011, 12:21 AM   #1643
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Hi NEO Dan,

Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post
You set an Xmax limit, and a Voltage limit.
Just to clarify, you actually set an Xmax limit and an input power limit. The voltage varies with frequency for a given constant input power because of the reactive nature of the impedance load.

See the Maximum SPL description on page 14 of the Help file for details.

Kind regards,

David
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Last edited by David McBean; 11th February 2011 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 11th February 2011, 12:53 AM   #1644
soho54 is offline soho54  United States
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LOL, sorry about that.

I was thinking Power, and Voltage popped out. Too use to the main data page I guess.

What's funny is that I just answered a similar question on another forum today, and used Power.

Last edited by soho54; 11th February 2011 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 11th February 2011, 03:10 AM   #1645
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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Ahh thanks David,
Now I see what the tool is for, thermal vs displacement.

Which brings me back to my original point, which I didn't make very well.

Folks are using this tool for comparison of displacement limited power handling. But if I understand the way the tool works the simulation is that of a current source because it has no notion of nominal impedance and there for cannot "set" a voltage. In common usage speakers are driven by voltage source amps instead of current sources like industrial amps for MRI field coils, I've heard the behavior is quite different. If my understanding of the situation is not flawed the result we currently see is not representative of real world usage scenario's. For example when driver excursion and impedance are high at the same frequency; I belive the simulation would allow for much more voltage to be applied into the impedance peak to produce the desired "power" level this would potentially produce a false indication of over-excursion when in reality you'd have clipped the amp and run out of power.

As labeled the tool is valid, however I do think it is commonly misinterpreted and I think the option to toggle to a drive voltage mode of would be a more useful feature.
---
Added:
Basically I think it should function as the main input screen in HR already does with the same power calculation subroutine for a voltage input box.
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Last edited by NEO Dan; 11th February 2011 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 11th February 2011, 04:22 AM   #1646
soho54 is offline soho54  United States
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It is displacement limited power handling, only it is per frequency instead of per frequency response.

You can get a FR voltage limited graph using the rest of the HR program. It is really easy with the wizard. Just use the displacement graph, and add voltage until it hits the displacement limit, switch back over to Response, and there you go.

Run both, and you will find you get the same SPL:Voltage point using the lowest red frequency in the passband in the Maximum SPL graph, and following the voltage:displacement method.

The HR Maximim SPL method also gives you the EQ limits, the other version doesn't on its own.
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Old 11th February 2011, 04:47 AM   #1647
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Default Bug Fix

Hi Everyone,

Quote:
Originally Posted by David McBean View Post
Thanks GM. I will have a look at the data and let you know by return e-mail if I find anything.
The bug identified by GM has now been fixed. The latest Hornresp release is Product Number 2830-110211.

Kind regards,

David
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Old 11th February 2011, 04:57 AM   #1648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David McBean View Post
I will have a look when I get a chance.
Hi Brian,

I remembered why the throat adaptor entry only has a conical expansion :-). The constraint was applied so that the suite of Directivity tools can still be used with single-segment horns, even though a throat adapter entry might be specified. The way that the Hornresp directivity model works, this would not be possible otherwise.

By way of background, the throat adaptor entry was really intended to be used as part of the specification of a mid-range compression driver. In most cases the adaptor expansion rate for a practical 'real-world' compression driver will be conical, and even if it is not, because it is normally so short, the overall power response performance is unlikely to be significantly changed anyway.

At this stage and after giving it much consideration, I think it is probably better to leave things as they are.

Sorry - there is no simple way of getting a 'fifth-segment' option in Hornresp, if that is what you were really looking for :-).

Kind regards,

David
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Old 11th February 2011, 05:07 AM   #1649
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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Default We drive speakers with voltage not power.

Man this feature is widely misunderstood/confusing

And that's why I am tired of seeing people use it to show performance.
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Last edited by NEO Dan; 11th February 2011 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 11th February 2011, 05:13 AM   #1650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post
But if I understand the way the tool works the simulation is that of a current source because it has no notion of nominal impedance and there for cannot "set" a voltage.
Hi NEO Dan,

With Xmax set to a large value so that the Maximum SPL result is not displacement-limited at any frequency, the simulation will be that of a constant power source, not a constant current source. Try using the Sample tool with the Maximum SPL chart, to see how the voltage, power and displacement can vary at different frequencies.

The normal SPL response is generated using a constant voltage source Eg (assuming Rg = 0).

Kind regards,

David
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