Who makes the lowest distortion pro-sound subwoofers? - Page 13 - diyAudio
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Old 29th August 2008, 10:09 AM   #121
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Default BMS

Thanks for the quick replies! I guess if the 18N860 isn't released yet i'm not going to be able to get my hands on one - friends overseas or not :-)

The reason i'm asking is because I'm trying to find the most suitable 18", lowest distortion, pro driver to go into a small box (95L). To use as either vented or sealed with a linkwitz/esp circuit to extend the lows to lower. With that in mind, I've been looking for drivers with the lowest: vas,qts,qes and highest: excursion,sensitivity,power rating.

the ones that I've modelled in winISD so far are the 18 sound: 18ND930, 18ND19300; B&C: 18NW100; Beyma: 118NDW; Precision Devices: PD1850, PDN18SB40 and the BMS 18N860.

The reason i was looking for the BMS driver is that out of all the above it has the highest excursion, and power rating.
Am i barking up the wrong tree?

The 18 sound drivers both presented quite well in winISD with a box of 95L - whereas most of the others prefer a box size of roughly 200L.

The neodymium magnet stucture isn't as high a priority, i was only going for those for the weight factor, (i don't want my mate lugging a 20kg driver in his suitcase if i can get away with it :-)

Any pointers would be most welcome, i'm not so good at woodworking, otherwise i'd be building myself a horn as my first project! But i'm really comfortable with math/electronics so a linkwitz circuit is the easiest for me to start with :-)

Someone recommended car audio subwoofers for their high excursion and power ratings, but they don't seem to be very sensitive - roughly in the 85db range...
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Old 29th August 2008, 03:09 PM   #122
MaVo is offline MaVo  Germany
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Instead of focussing on 18 inch drivers, you could simply use multiple smaller drivers for the same output, which has the added benefit that you can scatter them around the room and get a better modal response for free.

tapped horns are quite easy to build, if that really is a concern and one tapped horn has about +12db max output (changes with frequency) compared to the same driver in closed box.
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Old 29th August 2008, 03:27 PM   #123
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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I think those BMS are way too expencive, and the Faital woofer I am looking at is a beauty in comparison
but no sub though, I may have to do those later, with multiple sub (hifi)drivers, like Mavo suggests...maybe
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Old 28th June 2009, 02:24 PM   #124
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Just for the record
BMS 18N860 is finally on the market
Not sure, but maybe mms have gone down a bit

The only source I know charges 600EUR each

New BEYMA 21" is 650EUR

FaitalPro 18" sub is 490EUR
PrecisionDevices PD2150/PDN2150 about the same

Seems to me the prices on PRO woofers are going up
Lets hope that means they are getting better as well

I will stick to ordinary 18" pro woofer
I prefer better frequency response, to make ordinary 3way active a possibility
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Old 28th June 2009, 06:42 PM   #125
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I'm looking at a sub for my home system and was thinking of using a Phase Linear Aliante 12" unit. They are obsolete but still occasionally available. I have a 10" version in the car and it's superb. Flat GRP & aluminium honeycomb driven element , 5" voice coil , huge magnet , stainless steel frame and very high power handling.
Whats the opinion of using car sub drivers in a home system ?
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Old 28th June 2009, 06:58 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by thermal runaway

Whats the opinion of using car sub drivers in a home system ?
Depends. Some have quite a high Fs compared to an HT sub because the large amount of cabin gain brings up the LF. Typically very inefficient.

For HT subs something like a Maelstrom is pretty hard to beat. Mine should be here later in the week.
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Old 31st May 2010, 05:53 PM   #127
Legis is offline Legis  Finland
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Has there been published any measurements on pro woofers? Especially I would be interested to see graphs and/or hear user feedbach about PD186s. Hopefully by the end of the week my 8 x PD186s will arrive

The U-frame-line-array boxes, in which PDs will be intalled, are ready:

Click the image to open in full size.



It also came to my attention that BMS has a very good woofer (18S430v2: http://bmsspeakers.com/fileadmin/bms...0v2_t_data.pdf) approximately in the same price class with PD186. Any feedback on these?




What comes to the demodulation/shorting rings, I think they start to play some role in the last couple of millimetres of the linear xmax.

I have a theory, based on which I think almost every producer uses shorting rings, otherwise the inductance would rise sky high in >3-inch voice coils...

For example in Eminence Definimax 4018LF is advertised about using a shorting ring, but still it's inductance is whooping 4,78mH and because of this the FR drops very soon, at approx 1kHz. Then the Kilomax 18, which has more xmax (and therefore longer voice coil), has only 1,59mH of inductance and an FR reching 2kHz but it's not advertised to include a shorting ring??? How else than with shorting ring would this be possible? There is no other way, Kilomax must have a shorting ring even though it is not stated...

So as a rule of thumb, I think one can deduct the usage and maybe even the number of shorting rings from the 1) lenght and 2) diameter of the voice coil. The longer the VC is and the more diameter the VC has, the higher the inductance should be without shorting rings. If a shorting ring is applied, then the inductance drops and if another shorting ring is applied, inductance drops some more etc...

If the inductance is not stated in the spec sheet, one can estimate it by looking at the frequency response of the woofer (and comparing it with same size woofers); the higher-reaching FR, the lower the inductance must be.

Therefore, if a long throw woofer (VC longer than 23mm for example) with a VC of 4 inch in diameter, has a FR that reches to the 2Khz or higher, it must have quite low inductance and therefore a shorting ring or two.

What do you think?

Last edited by Legis; 31st May 2010 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 6th August 2010, 07:44 PM   #128
Gyuri is offline Gyuri  Hungary
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And what about these?

RCF - Low Frequency Transducers
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Old 6th August 2010, 08:11 PM   #129
Legis is offline Legis  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyuri View Post
And what about these?

RCF - Low Frequency Transducers
IMO:

What comes top 18-inch models, too big inductance (no shorting rings apparently). In general, High inductance equals more upper bass distortion. No shorting rings, well... inductance and Bl varies much with voice coil's position = the woofer will distort more when it's cone moves compared to a woofer with shorting rings (in general).

Woofers also don't seem to have vented chassis. Air compression, whether in closed box or inside woofer's motor, raises 2nd harmonic distortion.

There are better option imo, for example BMS's woofers.

edit: RCF's woofers seem to have demodulation rings. Inductance is still quite high.

Last edited by Legis; 6th August 2010 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 6th August 2010, 08:24 PM   #130
Gyuri is offline Gyuri  Hungary
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I say thank you for your words, i'm wondering, how it would be possible to favour it my MJK MLTL FE-208 loudspeakers on the lower frequencies.

Wacky Gyuri
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