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Old 27th January 2008, 06:25 PM   #1
cowanrg is offline cowanrg  United States
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Default SIMPLE subwoofer crossover?

ok. im fed up the audio industry.

there seem to be only overkill super pricey products, or really cheap ones that don't work correctly. i want something in between.

for all of us who use two-channel systems with subwoofer(s), there is no good way to integrate them in the system without running the speakers full range (bad idea if they aren't full range speakers), running through the subwoofer's crossover (mediocre quality at best, IF available), etc.

i'm currently using a crossover in my PC, using console, and some plugins, etc. however, the program is terrible. it is really buggy on my system and always stops working, and needs to be reloaded. in addition to that, sometimes the left or right channel will either drop out, or go down 6-10dB. it's just not good enough.

here is what i want (maybe it already exists?). either a software package that simple allows me to choose outputs on my soundcard, and apply a crossover to them. for instance, output 1 and 2 are 80hz - infinity. output 3 and 4 are 0 - 80hz. something super basic like that.

OR... a box that the outputs from the computer come into it, get split into 4 outputs, high pass stereo, and low pass stereo. and this crossover point can be set simple by a knob or a couple jumpers, or worst case, removing a few parts.

i've played with software, and console is the simplest solution, but like i said, it doesn't work correctly. for the record, i'm using a lynx 2B soundcard. it sounds great, and it shouldn't be the issue. a software solution would be nice, but it only solves my issue, and doesn't address anyone else that has a nice 2-channel setup but can't effectively use a sub.

sure, they is the pass labs crossover, the older threshold one, or the DEQX, etc. however, all these products are at LEAST $1k (or $3k+ for the pass or deqx). this is a bit high considering the simple requirement of just a simple 2-way crossover.

i checked into marchand stuff. however, the circuits use a lot of opamps (maybe unavoidable?) and i found them to be quite noisy. i have an XM9 next to me right now, and its unacceptably noisy. im going to try some different opamps or something, but it just doesn't even come close to high end yet.

oh, and the marchand stuff is unbalanced. so, for a stereo 2-way crossover, you are running through 16 opamps. fantastic. and it has too many adjustments and such IMO. subwoofers have their own level controls, so that isn't necessary. i just want a frequency splitter, that's it. however, i want something that maintains the best possible sound quality. any ideas???
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Old 27th January 2008, 06:27 PM   #2
cowanrg is offline cowanrg  United States
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oh, i know someone will mention the behringer. i have nothing against it, but i just really dislike the idea of having $30k+ worth of equipment, and running the signal through $300 box that converts it to digital, and then back to analog. ick. maybe it sounds good, but it certainly can't be the best and simplest solution.

i don't really need/want room equalization or anything. i just want a basic frequency splitter.
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Old 27th January 2008, 06:28 PM   #3
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It sounds like you are running active? Why not look at ESP P09.
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Old 27th January 2008, 06:30 PM   #4
cowanrg is offline cowanrg  United States
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i'm not really running active, i'm just using two subwoofers and main speakers.

i've looked at that project, but it appears to be about the same thing as the marchand xm9.
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Old 27th January 2008, 06:32 PM   #5
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I think for the low pass section, op amps are fine, and the sub woofer probably has much worse electronics in it anyhow.

For the high pass, you can use a simple discrete circuit; depending on the filter shape you need, it probably only needs to be a simple unit gain buffer.

If you know that the driving stage has low impedance you may be able to do without an input buffer, otherwise you want a buffer first.

There was a thread in Loudspeakers forum about making Active crossovers that don't suck, and it had lots of circuits posted in it.
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Old 27th January 2008, 06:37 PM   #6
cowanrg is offline cowanrg  United States
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i undestand what you mean about subwoofers not having the best components, but why compromise if it's not necessary?

i don't entirely mind using opamps for the low-pass, but ultimately, the low pass isn't the problem. subwoofers almost always have their own crossover. what's really necessary is a high-pass active filter.

ill look around in the loudspeakers forum and see if i can find the thread you are talking about.
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Old 27th January 2008, 06:51 PM   #7
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strange...

just from what i'm reading so far, it seems that given the choice, most people would prefer to use a single cap instead of an opamp for the HP. is this true?

i mean, i guess you could do a discrete circuit, but that can get costly, and has its own problems.

too bad for a 4 ohm speaker, and an 80hz crossover, i would need a ~400uf cap.
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Old 27th January 2008, 07:45 PM   #8
petarkb is offline petarkb  Bulgaria
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Hi everyone, first post here.

Quote:
here is what i want (maybe it already exists?). either a software package that simple allows me to choose outputs on my soundcard, and apply a crossover to them. for instance, output 1 and 2 are 80hz - infinity. output 3 and 4 are 0 - 80hz. something super basic like that.
This hasn't been answered so I'll give it a shot.

Download foobar2000, and install crossover (foo_dsp_xover.dll) for it. It's EXACTLY what you're asking for, I've tested it, and it works.

I hope I've been helpful.
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Old 27th January 2008, 08:15 PM   #9
cowanrg is offline cowanrg  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by petarkb
Hi everyone, first post here.



This hasn't been answered so I'll give it a shot.

Download foobar2000, and install crossover (foo_dsp_xover.dll) for it. It's EXACTLY what you're asking for, I've tested it, and it works.

I hope I've been helpful.
thanks for the advice.

i have actually used this (i use foobar) and it DOES work well. the problem is that the computer is not just used for music. i use it for movies, tv, games, etc. so, with that plugin, i would still need a solution for everything else. for a music-only machine, it would work, but i don't use my system like that.
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Old 27th January 2008, 08:26 PM   #10
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By running active I meant one amp for the sub and another amp for the main speakers. So it's easy to use something like P09.

The cap inline with the main speakers is rubbish, that's what plate amps do which you note sounds rubbish.
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