conclusions:
I'm ordering a pile of LAB12 tomorrow. I've read lots of more useful info on the debate between 12" and 18" drivers in horn-loaded applications from other forums where the discussion was a little more eloquent. I believe you guys are probably just tired of talking about it over and over again - sounds like lots of newbies trace this path right when they start.
On these other forums, I've learned a few things in my attempts to find the principles that support your arguments against the use of 18" drivers. It's funny, because I was hoping to find this information in my discussions on this thread, because I couldn't find where to read - the wealth of information being so vast. Add insult to injury when certain people call out how much I've read at the beginning of their posts... ("if you'd read more at so-and-so forum, you'd know that...")
I'm thinking, "I came to this forum to get the answers to my questions. Either point me in the right direction, or drop a few more breadcrumbs to fuel my search. Otherwise, don't waste your time. Just trying to build the best horn possible..."
Great, so here's what I learned, though it took more energy to achieve than I had hoped:
1. Horn length affects how low of a frequency you can achieve.
2. Mouth size must increase at a certain rate over the length of the horn. If the mouth is too small for the wavelength, the pressure wave coming out of the horn won't effectively transfer into the room. Make the mouth 1/4 of the largest wavelength, then stack four bins to achieve that wavelength. Add more to go lower.
3. 18" drivers have more surface area - needs much more energy to move the air than proportionally equivalent drivers of smaller diameter. This boils down to lower efficiency.
4. There's a camp that goes for the 1850 horns with single drivers, and there's another camp that goes for the Labhorns, with more people joining the Labhorn camp every day.
5. It seems that some here are implying that even though some features of the VOID 18-1000 and the PD1850 drivers are outstanding amongst other 18" drivers - meeting requirements for horn loading, fast coils, fat magnets, etc, a pair of LAB12 will *proportionally* (per watt expended) and more efficiently produce more volume and lower bass than the same cabinet scaled up and packed with two of previously mentioned 18" drivers.
On this final point, do you agree or disagree?
Finally, this thread should be archived for you guys to send every newbie (like me) to so that you can focus your energies on problems that haven't been chased down to their ends time and time again.
Thanks for your patience, this is a great forum!
I'll drop a link to a new thread for the build.
I can contribute a decent build guide with good pics...
I'm ordering a pile of LAB12 tomorrow. I've read lots of more useful info on the debate between 12" and 18" drivers in horn-loaded applications from other forums where the discussion was a little more eloquent. I believe you guys are probably just tired of talking about it over and over again - sounds like lots of newbies trace this path right when they start.
On these other forums, I've learned a few things in my attempts to find the principles that support your arguments against the use of 18" drivers. It's funny, because I was hoping to find this information in my discussions on this thread, because I couldn't find where to read - the wealth of information being so vast. Add insult to injury when certain people call out how much I've read at the beginning of their posts... ("if you'd read more at so-and-so forum, you'd know that...")
I'm thinking, "I came to this forum to get the answers to my questions. Either point me in the right direction, or drop a few more breadcrumbs to fuel my search. Otherwise, don't waste your time. Just trying to build the best horn possible..."
Great, so here's what I learned, though it took more energy to achieve than I had hoped:
1. Horn length affects how low of a frequency you can achieve.
2. Mouth size must increase at a certain rate over the length of the horn. If the mouth is too small for the wavelength, the pressure wave coming out of the horn won't effectively transfer into the room. Make the mouth 1/4 of the largest wavelength, then stack four bins to achieve that wavelength. Add more to go lower.
3. 18" drivers have more surface area - needs much more energy to move the air than proportionally equivalent drivers of smaller diameter. This boils down to lower efficiency.
4. There's a camp that goes for the 1850 horns with single drivers, and there's another camp that goes for the Labhorns, with more people joining the Labhorn camp every day.
5. It seems that some here are implying that even though some features of the VOID 18-1000 and the PD1850 drivers are outstanding amongst other 18" drivers - meeting requirements for horn loading, fast coils, fat magnets, etc, a pair of LAB12 will *proportionally* (per watt expended) and more efficiently produce more volume and lower bass than the same cabinet scaled up and packed with two of previously mentioned 18" drivers.
On this final point, do you agree or disagree?
Finally, this thread should be archived for you guys to send every newbie (like me) to so that you can focus your energies on problems that haven't been chased down to their ends time and time again.
Thanks for your patience, this is a great forum!
I'll drop a link to a new thread for the build.
I can contribute a decent build guide with good pics...
Boukisan,
The LABhorns are exactly what you need,4 should do very well,very well indeed!
Here's a link that tells what Scott Faller from TNT Audio thought about my LABhorn at the 2003 Midwest Audio Fest.
This was with just one cabinet,not even properly corner loaded.
Scroll down to the Chicago Horn Club.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/shows/maf03_e.html
The LABhorns are exactly what you need,4 should do very well,very well indeed!
Here's a link that tells what Scott Faller from TNT Audio thought about my LABhorn at the 2003 Midwest Audio Fest.
This was with just one cabinet,not even properly corner loaded.
Scroll down to the Chicago Horn Club.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/shows/maf03_e.html
G'day boukisan
If you can manage to squeeze four LAB Subs into a club, you will have the best bass in a club in your city. It will take some effort but the results will be superb and the punters will leave gob smacked. I wish there was a club in my city with a rig like this!
Cheers
William Cowan
If you can manage to squeeze four LAB Subs into a club, you will have the best bass in a club in your city. It will take some effort but the results will be superb and the punters will leave gob smacked. I wish there was a club in my city with a rig like this!
Cheers
William Cowan
Thanks for the encouragement.
Anyone know of minor tweaks or cosmetic improvements that have been made to these?
I'd like to do something (subtle) to make these horns look serious. I'm not talking about pictures of naked women, or a knapsack with two softballs inside hanging from the opening...
Just some images of labhorns that have been very nicely done...
Anyone know of minor tweaks or cosmetic improvements that have been made to these?
I'd like to do something (subtle) to make these horns look serious. I'm not talking about pictures of naked women, or a knapsack with two softballs inside hanging from the opening...
Just some images of labhorns that have been very nicely done...
If I might chime in, the LAB Subs are designed to work down to 27Hz when you line up 6 cabs; if not you would need some kind of mouth extension to go lower with single or dual cabs.
It would be bettter to look at the 12Pi speakers from Wayne Parham. These are actually modified LABs, but Wayne has put a lot of his own orginality. They can be used as singles or duals without too much of a very low frequency loss.
It would be bettter to look at the 12Pi speakers from Wayne Parham. These are actually modified LABs, but Wayne has put a lot of his own orginality. They can be used as singles or duals without too much of a very low frequency loss.
27hz? Woo-Hoo! That's where we're headed - by the end of summer '08, we plan to be there.
I saw the 12Pi bins - they're really well designed. Is that a different driver they're using?
I need to look at that some more - I was thinking about doing something inspired by that design.
I've got a friend that can machine the heatsinks and metal plates for the speaker access openings, so that's taken care of. I'm still just using the table saw and router, though I may get all the small birch pieces lasercut, because it's kind of annoying to cut something that small and thin. I might start a group buy so that we can get the price down on that part of the job, if it is something that a few other people might get interested in...
I saw the 12Pi bins - they're really well designed. Is that a different driver they're using?
I need to look at that some more - I was thinking about doing something inspired by that design.
I've got a friend that can machine the heatsinks and metal plates for the speaker access openings, so that's taken care of. I'm still just using the table saw and router, though I may get all the small birch pieces lasercut, because it's kind of annoying to cut something that small and thin. I might start a group buy so that we can get the price down on that part of the job, if it is something that a few other people might get interested in...
12Pi uses the same LAB Driver drivers (2 drivers per box). They are wired differently from the original LAB Subs and have heatsinking attached for better thermal management. The current one is version 1 and version 2 is a couple of weeks away according to a reply I received from Wayne a few days ago.
By the way, if you are planning to stack 6 cabs together, go for the original LAB Sub design. They are truly unbeatable in that configuration.
By the way, if you are planning to stack 6 cabs together, go for the original LAB Sub design. They are truly unbeatable in that configuration.
That's refreshing - you complemented Wayne's work AND the LABhorn in the same breath. Going by what I've read so far on Pi12 products & Wayne, you've got to be a truly objective thinker to talk like that. Seems like the Pi12 vs. LABhorn thing really polarizes people on these forums.
But, like you said - I do want to build the LABhorns because of how I plan to stack them, and make my own heatsinks as well. I think I'll try to find a way to improve the heatsink design and then release the plans to the forum as payment for all of the great advice I've gotten here...
Thanks again!
But, like you said - I do want to build the LABhorns because of how I plan to stack them, and make my own heatsinks as well. I think I'll try to find a way to improve the heatsink design and then release the plans to the forum as payment for all of the great advice I've gotten here...
Thanks again!
Might be worth it to research mouth extentions that fold over or are removable for transport.
I'd aim for ~25hz minimum for some content. Maybe researching a way to include one of these in the Lab design might help it some as well? http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3238
I'd aim for ~25hz minimum for some content. Maybe researching a way to include one of these in the Lab design might help it some as well? http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3238
How can we not mention the Matterhorn, the world's largest sub when discussing the biggest bass bomb? 40kW of tapped horn power in a shipping container.
http://youtu.be/o36Kp6veJ6c
http://youtu.be/o36Kp6veJ6c
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.