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Old 7th December 2007, 12:14 PM   #1
Bikeman is offline Bikeman  Australia
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Default Advice/feedback on sub project

Hi everyone!

I'm a regular reader, and very infrequent poster here at diyaudio.

I've been contemplating a new sub setup for my main room, as my old subwoofer is doing duty on the pc these days.

I've been agonizing over the different driver choices in Australia and weighing up my options, simming things to death.

As it turns out, I can get a pioneer car sub at a good price. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn..._35834,00.html
This driver is not aimed at SPL comps, rather it's supposedly more for high quality sound, which I hope means it wont suck as a music/home theatre driver!

T/S Params are in the owner manual: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...ationNotes.pdf

But basically

Fs 24 Hz
Qts 0.39
Qms 9.0
Qes 0.41
Xmax 13.5mm
Vas 93L
Mms 135g
Sd 458cm^2

My plan is to use four drivers, in two back to back pairs, one each side of the room.
Probably around 80-100 litres a box, sealed. Linkwitz transformed down to low to mid 20hz, aiming for a 0.65 Q rolloff.
I'm hoping room gain will get me down a little lower.

What I'm want out of this system is nice, tight, clean bass. I don't need to tear down the walls, but I do want pretty decent LFE for movies.
Use will be around 60% music, 40% movies.
Still deciding on different options of amps and maybe switchable eq curves for movies vs music.

So I guess what I'm after is a sanity check lol!.
Anyone have any opinions on this driver? I found some reviews with google that seemed positive, but only in a car environment.
Anyone used it in a home environment?
Do the other aspects of my plan seem WAAAY off?
I'm pretty decided on the basic plan, it's mainly the driver choice I'm a little wary of I suppose.
I realise that there are going to be better drivers around, but the price on this is going to be hard to argue with...

Please give me your thoughts, I have a nice thick skin


Mark
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Old 8th December 2007, 12:19 PM   #2
Bikeman is offline Bikeman  Australia
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No one used it at all?

I've been so frustrated at the choice of drivers in Aus.
Peerless seems to be getting more and more expensive, and getting stuff shipped from the states sounds like a good proposition, but the shipping adds up really quick.
Especially when parts express only uses ups.

$360 odd US for shipping two dayton reference subs. Plus the cost of the drivers.

Eeek!

Anyway, failing any suggestion that I'm off in looney land, I'll probably go ahead with it.

I'll let you know how it all goes, maybe there'll be some nice cheap pioneer subs for sale, slightly used in a few months

Mark
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Old 9th December 2007, 04:25 AM   #3
F1 FAN is offline F1 FAN  Canada
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Hello Bikeman,My thoughts are that if you are using four of these drivers and hit your target of mid 20hz with a Q of .65 you should will be very pleased with the results with both music and HT.I like your idea of mounting them back to back or push-push as this will cancel much of the vibration in the enclosure.
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Old 10th December 2007, 04:46 PM   #4
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Hi Bikeman,

I would guess from the parameters that you're not going to have too much trouble. The most common problem with using car woofers from home subs is their high Fs and suchlike - they are designed to roll off higher than home sub drivers to better complement the interior of a car. But the parameters from this driver look okay - and you're using an LT anyway, which makes it moot. You just have to make sure they can take the kind of power and excursion you want to throw at them for your SPL goals - and their power handling does seem quite robust.

What the specs don't tell us about is the kind of distortion performance you can expect. But I'd think it would be reasonable - it seems to have a shorting ring in the motor and a kevlar cone. Meh. Using four of them should certainly help with overall distortion, and having two remote subs is known to help room integration. I'm personally a big fan of back-to-back mounting and am using it for the woofer section in my own speakers...

All in all, I think

Let us know how it goes!
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Old 14th December 2007, 10:32 PM   #5
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I have had some success with MTX car subwoofers as HT subbies, but the parametres are such that the best drivers for home and music applications seem to be the cheaper units with kigher "Q's" and as such need big really BIG boxes to work well.
My last experiment wound up being a single driver 15 inch in a 220 litre sealed box, said box now has Kicker driver in it and huge peak at around 120 Hz, not really suitable for my current cheap HT amplifier so it is just sitting in the garage waiting for a use.
Perhaps if there were enough of us in Melbourne who could decide on one driver type we could organize a group buy to cut costs
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Old 15th December 2007, 01:19 AM   #6
Bikeman is offline Bikeman  Australia
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Hi moondog,

Yeah, that often seems to be the case with car audio drivers. The parameters on this one seem pretty suitable for HT though. I wasn't sure how much to trust them, but they pass the WinISD sanity check just fine. So hopefully pioneer hasn't just made them up...

My original plan was to use peerless, but the price is just too much compared to what I can get these for. Especially because I always wanted to use multiple drivers.

Cheers,

Mark
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Old 15th December 2007, 03:14 AM   #7
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G'Day Mark,
Who here in Melbourne currently stocks those Pioneers and how much are they??
If you are wanting to check-out my experiment give me a :"Hoy!!" : and drop over, I'm easy to find
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Old 15th December 2007, 05:46 AM   #8
Bikeman is offline Bikeman  Australia
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Um, I don't know who might have them in stock.

As to how much, I'd rather not say. I don't mean to be selfish, but it's coming through a wholesale contact who I don't want to burn. It's all legit. Besides, I only have an estimate at this stage, not final pricing.

Sorry

BTW, thanks for the offer of a look at your experiment. I don't get over that way much, but next time I do, I might drop by.

Cheers,

Mark
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Old 15th December 2007, 06:56 AM   #9
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No problem, the Q is a little too low for my tastes and if I buy any more drivers my partner will emasculate me.
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