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Old 22nd February 2013, 01:40 AM   #11
DavidLS is offline DavidLS  Canada
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Join Date: Mar 2007
thanks Jeff - will keep thread going by posting what I have ordered for my crossover upgrade

* 4 x 0.047 uF sonicap platinum caps to bypass existing tweeter caps. Will leave the woofer cap as is. Thinking I need to pick up something like liquid nails to attach new to old caps.
* one sheet of Black Hole 5 - will figure out how I am going to use it once here
* 4 pairs of cardas CCGR connectors - this is for bi-wire
* Neotech stranded UPOCC - 14 ga for woofer and 18 ga for tweeter - wire to cleanup my poor job 10 years ago
* Cardas quad-eutectic solder

total cost is $530 shipped to Canada. More when everything arrives.
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Old 26th February 2013, 04:10 AM   #12
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David,

I look forward to your report.

Unfortunately, packages in excess of ten pounds become quite expensive to ship via international express.

S.W.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 12:59 AM   #13
DavidLS is offline DavidLS  Canada
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Complete tear down or tweak what I have....

so this is the next title in this chapter of updating my 10 year old speakers.

took the speakers apart yesterday. There were several casualties

1. the wire connector to one of caps on the woofer side broke off. Broke clean of course giving me nothing to attach to. Think I need a new 5.1 uF cap. Need to think about this a bit because it might make sense to just buy two new caps in keeping with the tear down theme (been watching This Old House).

2. one of the small inductors had wire break off as well. Off course bottom of the pile wire so completely unwound and rewound the wire with adequate length at both ends. Assume this will work fine.

3. the new binding post are set up for solder attachment. The old ones had a screw down ring attached to amp end of crossover wires. No way to solder wire into the connectors because they are so deep inside the speakers so will need to do something like buy cardas spades for this purpose.

4. so got me thinking about how attractive (not as in looks) outboard crossovers would be. Should have thought about this but would involve a lot more wire.

5. ripped out all the foam and poly - will soon be black hole 5 lined walls

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Old 3rd March 2013, 02:41 AM   #14
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I look forward to hearing the results of your rebuild David. I've heard Dave's 1801's on several different occasions. Very nice speaker when well fed ... I'm sure all your efforts will take it even higher up the food chain!
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Old 5th March 2013, 05:14 AM   #15
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidLS View Post
Complete tear down or tweak what I have....

so this is the next title in this chapter of updating my 10 year old speakers.

took the speakers apart yesterday. There were several casualties

1. the wire connector to one of caps on the woofer side broke off. Broke clean of course giving me nothing to attach to. Think I need a new 5.1 uF cap. Need to think about this a bit because it might make sense to just buy two new caps in keeping with the tear down theme (been watching This Old House).

2. one of the small inductors had wire break off as well. Off course bottom of the pile wire so completely unwound and rewound the wire with adequate length at both ends. Assume this will work fine.

3. the new binding post are set up for solder attachment. The old ones had a screw down ring attached to amp end of crossover wires. No way to solder wire into the connectors because they are so deep inside the speakers so will need to do something like buy cardas spades for this purpose.

4. so got me thinking about how attractive (not as in looks) outboard crossovers would be. Should have thought about this but would involve a lot more wire.

5. ripped out all the foam and poly - will soon be black hole 5 lined walls

A photo
David,

Let us know when you return from vacation. We will tackle these issues at length. For the short of it:

1. You would probably be OK with one. If you bought two, we would match them free of charge. They are cheap: Sonicaps LOL...this old house...good stuff!

2. You should be fine as this will alter the value very little.

3. If performed carefully, you could solder some wire to to the post before installation. You would need to be careful not to have the wire splayed out or excess solder build up. It is possible to slide the mounting nut over the solder joint. The notch in the posts allows you to move the nut to one side until you are past the wire hole.

4. An external box would not be as expensive as one might think. I would only use one set of posts on it. The wire going to the speakers from the XO box could be hard wired in the box (no post on that side of the box). Once you have figured up an adequate size for the box, you could build or buy. I have used these: Retail-Store He will make custom sizes. I use the soap mold type box in Cherry.

5. Let me know when you are about to start cutting BH5, and I'll shoot you some pointers. Both on cutting and placement.
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Old 5th March 2013, 03:29 PM   #16
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Please update us on the BH5 placement in the Ellis 1801. I did these exact upgrades about 6 months ago. and would like some other data points.

I ended up filling all the surfaces on the sides and front baffle (though I saw someone suggesting not to do the front) and a little on the back around the xover. I also left a very small thin sheet of poly hanging behind the tweeter as was there when the speakers were new from Dave in 2002.

I only bypassed the tweeter caps with sonicaps platinum and not the woofers. I had those bypassed with sonicaps II but took them out after the first week. the woof and tweet just did not sound in sync. would be interesting to know what I might be missing by not having the other 4 platinums in there vs the potential missalignment i felt the last time. I also started with the 8/15 resistors and moved to 8/12.5 to reduce the tweeter level.
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Old 11th March 2013, 04:00 AM   #17
DavidLS is offline DavidLS  Canada
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Hi stellab

thanks for telling me about your experience. What do you think of the 8/12.5 resistor combination .... sounds like you thought the tweeter was a little bright - don't think this has been my experience but haven't heard anything different.

My plan with the BH5 was to follow Dave's recipe which I think was middle chamber - top, bottom, walls and partial back wall and front chamber outside wall only and top and bottom. Nothing in the back chamber.

I am only bypassing the tweeter caps with the sonicap platinum - leaving the woofers as is although wonder if a higher quality cap would improve bass performance.
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Old 18th March 2013, 06:07 AM   #18
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Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidLS View Post
although wonder if a higher quality cap would improve bass performance.
You could do more with the tweeter caps, but I doubt a change from the G1 on the woofer would help the bass.
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Old 18th March 2013, 05:41 PM   #19
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What caps would you suggest in the tweeter circuit? I know thats a very open and subjective question and can lead to hundreds of dollars spent. just curious.

Turns out I did my speaker updates with No Rez and not BH5. I covered all the interior surface walls. front included. I wonder if its actually making the box seem bigger to the woofer and actually unloading them and affecting the port length? does anyone know how much norez it takes to show more volume in the box?

Also, how much do you toe your speakers in. I prefer a them just a few degreed from perpendicular to the wall (straight ahead). If I get them pointing toward my listening chair more than 15 degrees I hear the soundstage collapse and the high frequencies do become somewhat forward. its a nice center image but thats about it..
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Old 24th March 2013, 02:24 AM   #20
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: arizona
Originally Posted by DavidLS
"although wonder if a higher quality cap would improve bass performance."

Since the cap on the woofer circuit is impacting how the woofer rolls off in the treble, you probably wouldn't notice a change in the quality of the bass, but it should definitely impact the treble. I know I've been surprised at the improvements in the amount and quality of information getting through by upgrading a shunt capacitor in that position. Cheers
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