Why haven't some of you actually started small companies?

[camshaft]

I know this is a somewhat weird question, but I'm wondering why some of the guys on this site haven't actually tried producing fully finished amps as a small business. I mean there are guys here who could make an amp from scratch that could compete with a krell or even just a nice yamaha right? Also, for guys who have gone far enough to routinely sell kits that they've designed, why not go the extra step to sell an amp based on that kit? I know there's the issue of electrical certifications, but is there really enough to serve as a single deterrent?

So if somebody could clue me in I'd really be interested.

Thanks,
Austin

[pinkmouse]

When you do something as a business, it stops being fun.

[camshaft]

Yeah I know that's true Pinkmouse, but it seems like less of an issue when you aren't working for someone or at least not a big company. I mean do you really think Jensen didn't like designing the B&o stuff?

[jcx]

Wow that’s got a lot of dubious assumptions built in:

That amp circuit design has anything to do with commercial success of audio amplifiers

That amp circuit design even has much to do with perceptible audio performance

That the work (much less the success of) running a small business is even 10% about designing a product

That for the circuit design specialist there could possibly be a better position than to exercise their expertise in a environment with technical support of drafters, techs, test engineers, labs, equipment, janitors, institutional knowledge, other engineers that really are engaged in the design with you and paid to talk engineering with you

That anyone busy applying the marketing, manufacturing, sales, accounting, ect skills growing a audio startup business would have the time to post here

That anyone with even ½ the required skill set couldn’t command salary with profit sharing position in an existing business with near certain returns greater than even a successful “one man” audio product company

That the forum rules and community "paranoia" about commercial use/"abuse" of the diy forum for advertising by anyone trying to start up a audio product business would allow them to continue posting here

[Jeb-D.]

I work for an anonymous small audio company and I can tell you that someone would have to be insane to start their own company in this industry. Especially if you have no professional experience with the business aspect in the audio industry.

While I have no doubt in my mind that a lot of people here can design superior gear. As mentioned the price of certifications is high .The R&D cost and time to produce a product refined enough to sell on the consumer market, is high. Most of all, there are companies that build products in countries where the labor is pretty much free, using cheap components that look good, ect.. They sell for next to nothing when you consider that retail price is usually at least 8 times the cost to manufacture. Yet they will claim their product is the $hit and the majority of people will buy into it, because it's affordable and does the job(even though it is in no way hi-end). There is only a small portion of consumers that shop for quality gear. And for that small amount of consumers looking you pretty much have to battle with other small "hi-end" companies. When you consider that you have to deal with this and that your cost of living doesn't go down it can put you in a bad situation.

It does seem like a waste of talent to be good at audio design and not be able to make a living off of it. It is not impossible though. A smart thing would be to have a good stable part time or full time job and do the audio company on the side. And if your lucky and it takes off, then due it full time. Getting a job at a successful audio company is good if it's your thing. Whether you decide to stay there or learn the ropes to do your own thing.

[lumanauw]

A man who can design good audio is very different from a man who can make money from audio. These 2 positions demands a very different specification of a person. Sometimes a person can have these 2 qualities (like Nelson Pass). Sometimes the person who can make money from audio doesn't have to know electronics well, he can find one who can design good electronics and hire him. It takes a combination of good marketing skill, good marketing strategy, good product finishing, good packaging, good brochure paper, good talking, good at convincing people, sometimes a little bla-bla-bla to sell a product. It's very difficult to make money from audio. Regardless how good the product is, the ratio of all audio companies (try to sell product) and the surviving ones maybe worse than 20 to 1.
If you want to make money from audio, maybe you don't have to touch soldering iron at all. But you will have to be good at convincing people. You just have to deal only with packaging company, labeling, printing service for making packaging and brochure. The product, well you go to exhibitions like China's electronic fair.

[camshaft]

Thanks for the responses guys. I wasn't trying to imply in my original question though that I thought there was a direct correlation between the quality of the product the guy can make and the success of it as a sold product. I was merely trying to give credit to the ability of many people on this forum. When I originally posed the question I wasn't really referring to beginning major companies, but more along the lines of Pass, as lumanauw mentioned, and even Peter Daniel.

Austin

[jackinnj]

Originally posted by pinkmouse
When you do something as a business, it stops being fun.

If you do it succesfully (or up to that point at which you still believe it will be succesful) it's still fun. Do you think that Messr's Hewlett and Packard didn't have fun? How about Old Man Watson who used to wreak havoc with cash-registers before he started IBM.

To paraphrase Max Bialystock -- if you've got it, flaunt it.

[anatech]

Hi Al,

When you do something as a business, it stops being fun.

Seconded.

I did run my own company for 16 years. It stopped being a lot of fun once I hired more guys. Then I sold it. Audio seems to be one of the few businesses that is determined not to make a profit.

If you look at liability and everything else tied up in manufacturing, you wouldn't do it. Even if you don't do anything wrong, the accusation will blow a ton of $$$ until it's sorted.

You either have to go big, or don't go. That's even with a solid business plan and an excellent gimmick.

-Chris

[mtlin12]

Me too.

I also ran my own ASIC design house for 11 years, with 10 ~12
high-salary MSEE engineers.

I thought if I couldn't get bigger and bigger ASAP, I would have
no competition at all. So I decided to sell it at 2000 when the
PC and stock market seemed going down.

To start again? No way, unless some one would like to hire me
as a circuit consultant or get license from me .