I just follow the 20% overrating rule, because I too have too little knowledge on the topic, to dismiss the innitial safety guidlines I was taught...
...as much as I love and respect uncle Carlos.
For HV caps you can take two lower voltage caps and run them in series... obviously they need to be double the intended capacity...
then If you want to accommodate for a worst case scenario where you received 4 caps that were absolutely at the bottom of their tollerance rateing... i.e. -20%
Two marked as 400V but are actualy 320V
The other marked 500V but are actualy 400V
Lets say you detirmined you need an 750V cap, clearly you can see that the 400V caps COULD fall short... I say COULD, in the same sense that lightning can hit you, it is just not very likely... most of us goes through our lives without getting hit...but some are less lucky...
I have a saying "Things happen because they can" which means the inverse... If you don't want something to happen, take away the pillars upon which this thing happeining stands...make it "not possible"
Further I have other concerns...
Capacitors have a lifespan rateing normally rangeing from a few hundred hours to several thousand... Would this lifespan rateing still stand if the cap is used above its RATED voltage?
P.S. I am busy with a valve project now... haveing much fun... my hybrid DX guitar amp... front end is 2 nice Electro Harmonix 12AX7 tubes, run at about 250V.
Tonight I am makeing the heater supply.. 6.4V from a 5V v-reg referenced to ground via two diodes, wit a 5A current rateing provided by a MJ2501 transistor....
...as much as I love and respect uncle Carlos.
For HV caps you can take two lower voltage caps and run them in series... obviously they need to be double the intended capacity...
then If you want to accommodate for a worst case scenario where you received 4 caps that were absolutely at the bottom of their tollerance rateing... i.e. -20%
Two marked as 400V but are actualy 320V
The other marked 500V but are actualy 400V
Lets say you detirmined you need an 750V cap, clearly you can see that the 400V caps COULD fall short... I say COULD, in the same sense that lightning can hit you, it is just not very likely... most of us goes through our lives without getting hit...but some are less lucky...
I have a saying "Things happen because they can" which means the inverse... If you don't want something to happen, take away the pillars upon which this thing happeining stands...make it "not possible"
Further I have other concerns...
Capacitors have a lifespan rateing normally rangeing from a few hundred hours to several thousand... Would this lifespan rateing still stand if the cap is used above its RATED voltage?
P.S. I am busy with a valve project now... haveing much fun... my hybrid DX guitar amp... front end is 2 nice Electro Harmonix 12AX7 tubes, run at about 250V.
Tonight I am makeing the heater supply.. 6.4V from a 5V v-reg referenced to ground via two diodes, wit a 5A current rateing provided by a MJ2501 transistor....
You have fully agreement Nordic
Will you make rectification and filtering into your heater supply.... i do not understand about tubes, but i have suspections this may be good.
If you decide to do that...5000 uf to each ampere.... into 12 volts the condensers are not expensive
regards,
Carlos
Will you make rectification and filtering into your heater supply.... i do not understand about tubes, but i have suspections this may be good.
If you decide to do that...5000 uf to each ampere.... into 12 volts the condensers are not expensive
regards,
Carlos
Yep, I bought a 16V 4700uf one, as well as 1uf tantalum for after the regulation...
To be honest Carlos, I can not believe you do not know tubes...
MUCH easier to understand how they work, and to design with I think, than transistors... Some call them the perfect gain device...
For sure more dangerous voltages but I am most scared of the little 6V heater supply, drawing a constant 1.2A, that one stings like hell. the first triode (think of it like a transistor biased in class A), The first triode is biased with only half a milliamp at about 123V, so, very easy for minutely small signal to overcome the bias... inside the signal path we can swing to 250V leaving small noises way below in the noise floor... and at the very end in conventional tube amps is an output transformer, normally with a ratio of 20:1 or something high like that to step the voltage down for the speakers...
To bias a transistor for your diffirential, you need a whole string of components... to do the same for a triode tube (which is like a dual opamp) you basicaly need 1 or 2 resistors...
See if you can spot the DX
To be honest Carlos, I can not believe you do not know tubes...
MUCH easier to understand how they work, and to design with I think, than transistors... Some call them the perfect gain device...
For sure more dangerous voltages but I am most scared of the little 6V heater supply, drawing a constant 1.2A, that one stings like hell. the first triode (think of it like a transistor biased in class A), The first triode is biased with only half a milliamp at about 123V, so, very easy for minutely small signal to overcome the bias... inside the signal path we can swing to 250V leaving small noises way below in the noise floor... and at the very end in conventional tube amps is an output transformer, normally with a ratio of 20:1 or something high like that to step the voltage down for the speakers...
To bias a transistor for your diffirential, you need a whole string of components... to do the same for a triode tube (which is like a dual opamp) you basicaly need 1 or 2 resistors...
See if you can spot the DX
Attachments
If you are using computer supply to heaters, check our amplifier output if you do not
have the main PC supply oscilating frequency entering the power amplifier and beeing measured into the output...give a check on that....good construction...nice things those tubes.
I do not have experience...have build very few things using tubes...do not like them...too much hot.
regards,
Carlos
have the main PC supply oscilating frequency entering the power amplifier and beeing measured into the output...give a check on that....good construction...nice things those tubes.
I do not have experience...have build very few things using tubes...do not like them...too much hot.
regards,
Carlos
Carlos, thanks for your comments. Your experience has shown that 50V electrolytics can withstand higher voltages - I accept that. Even having that information, being the over? cautious type that I am, I would still make allowance for the manufacturer's +/- tolerance specification.
Nordic, nice work. You are a busy bee! Years ago I could do five tasks together in quick time - nowadays I do only one and it takes an age.
billabong.
Nordic, nice work. You are a busy bee! Years ago I could do five tasks together in quick time - nowadays I do only one and it takes an age.
billabong.
Precsion I, amp picture
hi,
first i have to say, i am not good in electronics as like you all. so i can't make very nice. here is my "DX precsion I" circuit. you can see the meter, it is the only meter i have for checking. transformer, i have two but here is showing one. you can see with lcd too, it is using microchip 16f877 for lcd ,switch and to control output protechtion for speaker. i am still doing program for it. last you can see my rose garden..
amp is still under construction.
thank you.
michael
hi,
first i have to say, i am not good in electronics as like you all. so i can't make very nice. here is my "DX precsion I" circuit. you can see the meter, it is the only meter i have for checking. transformer, i have two but here is showing one. you can see with lcd too, it is using microchip 16f877 for lcd ,switch and to control output protechtion for speaker. i am still doing program for it. last you can see my rose garden..
amp is still under construction.
thank you.
michael
billabong said:Years ago I could do five tasks together in quick time - nowadays I do only one and it takes an age.
billabong.
I'm happy to hear i'm not the only one feeling this way
Somehow i always find an excuse to lay down the soldering irom. The latest excuse is, that my daughter gave birth to this little beauty 7 weeks ago
Attachments
I am happy to see your pictures, the rose is beautifull.
I have appreciated, a lot your construction, it shows me and prove to everybody that our worries and concerns about boards and parasitic capacitances, inductances, coupling and all stuff is some kind of over worries.
Those wires, distances, kind of building is all people believe as wrong and dangerous....and all my life i could perceive that in audio this do not makes any difference...i have build this way, and them i have made pretty high tecnologically made boards and sounded the same...so..... this is something usefull to us to see the differences of real world and our worries.
Thank you Space.... i am now a days discussing with a dear friend from Croatia, the man is "apocalipthic" and he believes each condenser brand may sound specifically different from other, and each transistor brand may sound different...and each board layout will sound different...and each enclosure vibration will be different...well..... he sees a tragedy that i am trying to clarify to him and to myself...because if my friend is rigth, we will never find a good solution as Mathematical combinations of wrong or rigth possibilities will be enormous..... will be alike to win a Lottery game to build something with excelency.
Was good that you came with that picture for me...will show my tragic dear and beloved friend, that this works too.
regards,
Carlos
.........................................................................................................
Ebbe
Nothing more beautifull than a son.... in special when is a daugther i think...... i think life would be very empty without any happyness without a baby in our lives.... i would be happy to produce one each year...but unfortunattelly i am not finding women that wants to give me more children.
ahahahahah
Carlos
I have appreciated, a lot your construction, it shows me and prove to everybody that our worries and concerns about boards and parasitic capacitances, inductances, coupling and all stuff is some kind of over worries.
Those wires, distances, kind of building is all people believe as wrong and dangerous....and all my life i could perceive that in audio this do not makes any difference...i have build this way, and them i have made pretty high tecnologically made boards and sounded the same...so..... this is something usefull to us to see the differences of real world and our worries.
Thank you Space.... i am now a days discussing with a dear friend from Croatia, the man is "apocalipthic" and he believes each condenser brand may sound specifically different from other, and each transistor brand may sound different...and each board layout will sound different...and each enclosure vibration will be different...well..... he sees a tragedy that i am trying to clarify to him and to myself...because if my friend is rigth, we will never find a good solution as Mathematical combinations of wrong or rigth possibilities will be enormous..... will be alike to win a Lottery game to build something with excelency.
Was good that you came with that picture for me...will show my tragic dear and beloved friend, that this works too.
regards,
Carlos
.........................................................................................................
Ebbe
Nothing more beautifull than a son.... in special when is a daugther i think...... i think life would be very empty without any happyness without a baby in our lives.... i would be happy to produce one each year...but unfortunattelly i am not finding women that wants to give me more children.
ahahahahah
Carlos
Attachments
yes, the sink is not big enough, you are right, but anyway it dsn't get hoter then 40-42c . i still have in mind to seperate them into two sink. the sink was from my previous pioner amp. i just use it to listen the sound. you know i have operate it more then 12hrs without any problem. i tested it few days too. still more need to be done. i said earlier, i am not good in electronics. so it is just like this as i can do.
thank you.
michael
thank you.
michael
hi,
yes, we can't listen too loud at our house. 20% of its sound is more then enough to listen from my car park about 100m away.
yes, actually i will make more btr in later stage until all are working fine to me. i know i need to used original circuit board to get more btr quality sound and stablity. i used original snken transistors. all are original too. i took from my uncle one amp used 2sc2922/2sa21216, 2sc4793 and others too. luckly i found in there so i used.
anyway its works fine.
later stage i will require to perchase board from you.
hows much does it cost? can send to singapore?
thank you
yes, we can't listen too loud at our house. 20% of its sound is more then enough to listen from my car park about 100m away.
yes, actually i will make more btr in later stage until all are working fine to me. i know i need to used original circuit board to get more btr quality sound and stablity. i used original snken transistors. all are original too. i took from my uncle one amp used 2sc2922/2sa21216, 2sc4793 and others too. luckly i found in there so i used.
anyway its works fine.
later stage i will require to perchase board from you.
hows much does it cost? can send to singapore?
thank you
heheheh..... very good all that stuff
average power may work fine with those heatsinks.
I think was excelent someone build this way..... i always knew this is not a problem to frequencies into audio range...but people start to talk about capacitances, inductances, parasitic oscilations, new star ground...splitted ground and that stuff.... i felt myself surprised as was not my knowledge those things...seems strange to me and non sense...as we are treating of audio not radio frequency...the inductances and capacitances presentes will not make tuned circuits to oscilate into audio frequencies.....maybe into HF frequencies...then, better not to use Very High frequency transistors to avoid problems.
I used the kind behavior to be politically correct.... i do not like to discuss..... reason why i have accepted all ground ideas and all that stuff, and made that not to discuss...... but i have never had any belief about that stuff because practice, daily constructions show me this is not something to worry, unless you are building Radio Frequency transmitters, and i am a Radio Amateur, 35 years using, building, constructing and fixing Radio Transmitters and i know the reality of capacitance and inductances there is critical...but for audio frequencies those worries are overkilled.
Well.... finally someone proved that...not oscilating..working fine.
regards,
Carlos
average power may work fine with those heatsinks.
I think was excelent someone build this way..... i always knew this is not a problem to frequencies into audio range...but people start to talk about capacitances, inductances, parasitic oscilations, new star ground...splitted ground and that stuff.... i felt myself surprised as was not my knowledge those things...seems strange to me and non sense...as we are treating of audio not radio frequency...the inductances and capacitances presentes will not make tuned circuits to oscilate into audio frequencies.....maybe into HF frequencies...then, better not to use Very High frequency transistors to avoid problems.
I used the kind behavior to be politically correct.... i do not like to discuss..... reason why i have accepted all ground ideas and all that stuff, and made that not to discuss...... but i have never had any belief about that stuff because practice, daily constructions show me this is not something to worry, unless you are building Radio Frequency transmitters, and i am a Radio Amateur, 35 years using, building, constructing and fixing Radio Transmitters and i know the reality of capacitance and inductances there is critical...but for audio frequencies those worries are overkilled.
Well.... finally someone proved that...not oscilating..working fine.
regards,
Carlos
hi,
you all have much, much more exp then me. i am just an amture. ok, now come to the sound quality, i am now listing too. compare, i made two amp, one is syms and one is DX pr I, honestly tells you, i dn't want to telling any lie. Dx-pr I is a nice amp if can opearate in low temp. i never build HRii but soon i will be making that too. actually if i listen with soft sound, it is great if you compare with sysms..i have to thanks both. clearity Dx is much more clear then sysms. sorry to compare this way cause i made thios two. both are working fine to me. i used all original transistors. my speaker is not good but still can feel the sounds great.
only output transistor volt question: if i tune into 450millv E-B then its stay in very cold like 37 to 40c, above 500mill volt its gets a bit hot about 42 to 47C , i don't know is this correct way to keep voltage below 500mill. need comments pls.
thank you....i will show more amp in comming way. i also need to perchase the pcb for hrii and Pr I.
payment i only can make by western union or bank to bank transfer. i don't use credit card in out side of the country.
thank you.
michael
you all have much, much more exp then me. i am just an amture. ok, now come to the sound quality, i am now listing too. compare, i made two amp, one is syms and one is DX pr I, honestly tells you, i dn't want to telling any lie. Dx-pr I is a nice amp if can opearate in low temp. i never build HRii but soon i will be making that too. actually if i listen with soft sound, it is great if you compare with sysms..i have to thanks both. clearity Dx is much more clear then sysms. sorry to compare this way cause i made thios two. both are working fine to me. i used all original transistors. my speaker is not good but still can feel the sounds great.
only output transistor volt question: if i tune into 450millv E-B then its stay in very cold like 37 to 40c, above 500mill volt its gets a bit hot about 42 to 47C , i don't know is this correct way to keep voltage below 500mill. need comments pls.
thank you....i will show more amp in comming way. i also need to perchase the pcb for hrii and Pr I.
payment i only can make by western union or bank to bank transfer. i don't use credit card in out side of the country.
thank you.
michael
I like to see I am not the only one useing veroboard...
My Reg is finished and tested 6.35V.
Now I have to do some metal work to install tubes and pots before starting to wire in the valve's component baord... also stripboard.
I can only receive money through credit card unfortunatley...
There is a PDF with the PCB on the website for you to make your boards with... I think you may enjoy the step up from veroboard...
See if you can find blue press and peel sheets at your component supplier..
My Reg is finished and tested 6.35V.
Now I have to do some metal work to install tubes and pots before starting to wire in the valve's component baord... also stripboard.
I can only receive money through credit card unfortunatley...
There is a PDF with the PCB on the website for you to make your boards with... I think you may enjoy the step up from veroboard...
See if you can find blue press and peel sheets at your component supplier..
I also think that everyone making a big deal out of speaker wires is silly. People using special flat silver wires as if it would change the sound. I dont understand how it could change the sound. There is no sound traveling over the wires. It only becomes sound when the speaker does its work. Otherwise it is simple electricity which is transmitted very well by copper. The only difference I have every noticed was when I twisted the two wires to each speaker. My speaker wires maybe cost $4 for a total of 20 feet of stranded copper at 14AWG and terminated into a banana plug at the amp and straight into the lug at the speaker. If you pay $300 for speaker wire I think you have to make yourself believe it sounds better or you will have to accept that you are a fool for spending that much on wire. Maybe I am wrong, but my speakers sound great with this cheap wire.
In the electronics manufacturing industry we always did prototypes with just wire soldered to the components. A rats nest they called it. Or maybe veroboard, maybe. All specs were tested on this rats nest and were believed to be as accurate as it would ever get. We only built the boards later for convenience and looks. It is obviously much faster to assemble a board and then wave solder it, but the electical engineer we had was never worried that his readings were not accurate when the prototype was not yet on PCB. He did worry about the PCB though when traces were at sharp angles. He always wanted rounded corners. Did you know that with multilayer boards you can make an inductor by drawing traces in circles and connecting them through the layers?
Anyway, I have very little experience in all this but silver wires and "special" capacitors make no sense to me electrically. Electricity has frequency, volts, and amps to it. Not special sonic properties.
Uriah
In the electronics manufacturing industry we always did prototypes with just wire soldered to the components. A rats nest they called it. Or maybe veroboard, maybe. All specs were tested on this rats nest and were believed to be as accurate as it would ever get. We only built the boards later for convenience and looks. It is obviously much faster to assemble a board and then wave solder it, but the electical engineer we had was never worried that his readings were not accurate when the prototype was not yet on PCB. He did worry about the PCB though when traces were at sharp angles. He always wanted rounded corners. Did you know that with multilayer boards you can make an inductor by drawing traces in circles and connecting them through the layers?
Anyway, I have very little experience in all this but silver wires and "special" capacitors make no sense to me electrically. Electricity has frequency, volts, and amps to it. Not special sonic properties.
Uriah
I have Symassym and other brands and i know how they sound
Also do not want to bother my friend Michael Bittner and all folks that have built the excelent Symassym amplifier.... to me is enougth that mine sounds good too.
I am not a believer, not a religious man, i was baptised because i was
a baby and had not the choice to say this was bill shut.
I do not believe in God with bear, and other things alike, also do not
believe clever guys as Einstein had that belief too...he said about
God as the “answer to our ignorance”.... something must exist..but
not those foolishes we use to see and learn
Not a believer as main caracteristics, do not believe in absolutelly
nothing.... everything i go to test.... people say Black Gates need burn in
i did testings and sound the same.... i have repeated the burn in using
other method and spent 1 month...nothing changed.... people say
Panasonic electrolitic condenser sounds..i have tested and sounded
nothing...people said boards sounds...i have made an amplifier that
had board and compared with a messy construction...no difference, other
bill shut..... people say teflon condensers are better..i have tested and they
are not, just expensive and ugly...people told about ceramic...i have tested
and nothing once again.... people told me about stands to speakers... i have
tested and nothing once more.... people told me about cables...i have tested,
even coaxial for Radio frequency, heavy gauge, separated wires, paralell wires
and i have found nothing... people said supply sounds...i have tested with 1000uf
and compared to 20.000 and found bass more clear with 20.000, and not mufled.
Well.... there are thousands of myths and i do not believe in no one of them,
including the complicated and dense schematics sounds better....take a
Nelson Pass simple circuit and you will see this is not true too.
I just respect those “unobtanium” folks..... avoiding to laugh about them, but
i really think they may be crazy.... but i hate to discuss..... i am for real testings
... discussions are foolishes that only produces bad moments and hates.
Do not believe in me...TEST THOSE THINGS!
regards,
Carlos
Also do not want to bother my friend Michael Bittner and all folks that have built the excelent Symassym amplifier.... to me is enougth that mine sounds good too.
I am not a believer, not a religious man, i was baptised because i was
a baby and had not the choice to say this was bill shut.
I do not believe in God with bear, and other things alike, also do not
believe clever guys as Einstein had that belief too...he said about
God as the “answer to our ignorance”.... something must exist..but
not those foolishes we use to see and learn
Not a believer as main caracteristics, do not believe in absolutelly
nothing.... everything i go to test.... people say Black Gates need burn in
i did testings and sound the same.... i have repeated the burn in using
other method and spent 1 month...nothing changed.... people say
Panasonic electrolitic condenser sounds..i have tested and sounded
nothing...people said boards sounds...i have made an amplifier that
had board and compared with a messy construction...no difference, other
bill shut..... people say teflon condensers are better..i have tested and they
are not, just expensive and ugly...people told about ceramic...i have tested
and nothing once again.... people told me about stands to speakers... i have
tested and nothing once more.... people told me about cables...i have tested,
even coaxial for Radio frequency, heavy gauge, separated wires, paralell wires
and i have found nothing... people said supply sounds...i have tested with 1000uf
and compared to 20.000 and found bass more clear with 20.000, and not mufled.
Well.... there are thousands of myths and i do not believe in no one of them,
including the complicated and dense schematics sounds better....take a
Nelson Pass simple circuit and you will see this is not true too.
I just respect those “unobtanium” folks..... avoiding to laugh about them, but
i really think they may be crazy.... but i hate to discuss..... i am for real testings
... discussions are foolishes that only produces bad moments and hates.
Do not believe in me...TEST THOSE THINGS!
regards,
Carlos
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