Ive been running Car subs as part of two seperate large PA systems for 2 years now without any problems.. But then again my subs have 2 4 ohm voice coils and are wired 8 ohm each and theres two per cabinet wired parrallell to give each cabinet overall impedance of 4 ohm.. both systems are identical in the sub department and both systems use a nice old H&H Amp bridged per set of subs and there are two sets in each system makeing 4 seperate amplifiers driving 4 setys of car subs.. but these arent exactly cheap subs...
OWen
OWen
i'm not joking , but i'm not expecting u to believe that "nonsense" eitherAndrewT said:
u said it yourself "The amplifier output stage is responsible for returning inductive current to the power supplies under normal conditions, which is why reactive loads increase power dissipation in the output stage."ilimzn said:
when the reactive energy stored is too high .... bye bye output stage
Hi sss
Sure,when too high energy is stored a power stage will be destroy,but the purpose of the diodes connected from the output to the supply rails is not for discharge this energy but for protected the output transistor to the high voltage spike like correctly said from ilimzn.
A similar thing happens with the relay.
A good amplifier for subwoofer(car or home) would never have to neglect these protections.
Best regards
Vittorio
Sure,when too high energy is stored a power stage will be destroy,but the purpose of the diodes connected from the output to the supply rails is not for discharge this energy but for protected the output transistor to the high voltage spike like correctly said from ilimzn.
A similar thing happens with the relay.
A good amplifier for subwoofer(car or home) would never have to neglect these protections.
Best regards
Vittorio
This is quite amusing.
There is -no- important difference between car and house subwoofers, or speakers in general for that matter.
Electrically they act the same.
The only differentiation is their -intended- use, and the fact that it's easier to deal with low impedance speakers in the automotive world because of the low voltages available.
Some car speakers may be designed to handle weather a bit more, but that's no big deal.
Another thing I'd like to get off my chest: voice coil inductance rarely causes problems with too much reactive current in output stages. I've had more problems with it related to oscillation in any case. The bigger reactive component I have experienced with subwoofers is because of the speaker's physical environment. You must remember that air itself is very much like electricity and that a tuned speaker cabinet is mathematically no different from a tuned electrical circuit. The real difference is the acoustic enclosure just has a lot more quirks that aren't readily apparent.
Too many people get a strong misconception about car audio subwoofers in comparison with those intended for use in the house.
I will say as others have said, the first posts about voice coils getting out of gap and sending huge EMF pulses has nothing to do with car speakers in specific and is complete nonsense. Speakers are reactive, and do cause reactive currents in the amplifier/speaker interface, but this applies no matter what sort of speaker you use.
There is -no- important difference between car and house subwoofers, or speakers in general for that matter.
Electrically they act the same.
The only differentiation is their -intended- use, and the fact that it's easier to deal with low impedance speakers in the automotive world because of the low voltages available.
Some car speakers may be designed to handle weather a bit more, but that's no big deal.
Another thing I'd like to get off my chest: voice coil inductance rarely causes problems with too much reactive current in output stages. I've had more problems with it related to oscillation in any case. The bigger reactive component I have experienced with subwoofers is because of the speaker's physical environment. You must remember that air itself is very much like electricity and that a tuned speaker cabinet is mathematically no different from a tuned electrical circuit. The real difference is the acoustic enclosure just has a lot more quirks that aren't readily apparent.
Too many people get a strong misconception about car audio subwoofers in comparison with those intended for use in the house.
I will say as others have said, the first posts about voice coils getting out of gap and sending huge EMF pulses has nothing to do with car speakers in specific and is complete nonsense. Speakers are reactive, and do cause reactive currents in the amplifier/speaker interface, but this applies no matter what sort of speaker you use.
For one thing, I have found that some typical car woofers appear to rely more heavily on mechanical damping than electrical. They have stiffer suspensions that domestic units (and/or a wider magnetic gap for vibration/environmental reasons...in the past at least), and so Vas is not large (which is also convenient for cars)
FWIW I have seen two different domestic 8 ohm rated amps die as a result of using car woofers, but I think this was only to be expected.
FWIW I have seen two different domestic 8 ohm rated amps die as a result of using car woofers, but I think this was only to be expected.
Gentlemen (and ladies too), unfortunately the Car Audio world is fill with myths, half-truths, and sheer twisted lies..... Ask 10 installers and you'll get 10 different stories..... Personally have heard an installer arguing about the size of cable to be used for a tweeter. He said that for a tweeter, the cable size MUST not be smaller than xx AWG, else the inductance will destroy the tweeter. Judge for yourselves.
FWIW, car audio speakers IS the same as home audio speakers...... Just that the impedance of car loudspeakers are normally rated at 4 ohms to extract the most power from the rail voltages of an amp, provided the output stage of the amp can handle the load.
Referring to Post #12, I have seen (and still in possession of) a good 18" subwoofer with its dual winding voice coil physically expelled (literally) by the amp, as the voice coils were connected to the outputs of the amp in stereo mode. This will cause the windings to mechanically sum the movement of the voice coil. At one point or another, at extremely high excursions, the glue will fail due to the stresses involved with the mechanical summation.
Other than this, have used car speakers at home and vice versa without any problems..... Just a little common sense and judgement, without resorting to myths.....
My 2 cents.....
FWIW, car audio speakers IS the same as home audio speakers...... Just that the impedance of car loudspeakers are normally rated at 4 ohms to extract the most power from the rail voltages of an amp, provided the output stage of the amp can handle the load.
Referring to Post #12, I have seen (and still in possession of) a good 18" subwoofer with its dual winding voice coil physically expelled (literally) by the amp, as the voice coils were connected to the outputs of the amp in stereo mode. This will cause the windings to mechanically sum the movement of the voice coil. At one point or another, at extremely high excursions, the glue will fail due to the stresses involved with the mechanical summation.
Other than this, have used car speakers at home and vice versa without any problems..... Just a little common sense and judgement, without resorting to myths.....
My 2 cents.....
Yes obviously car speakers are designed with different ratings and ideas in mind.
However; these flavors of speaker are merely variations on a theme.
I would say that one's just as likely to fry an amp on a car speaker as on a house speaker. If you overload the amp, for example, it doesn't really care -what- is doing the overloading...
However; these flavors of speaker are merely variations on a theme.
I would say that one's just as likely to fry an amp on a car speaker as on a house speaker. If you overload the amp, for example, it doesn't really care -what- is doing the overloading...
LOL...WOW...
I'd just like to say a few things that are currently going through my mind...
I'm shocked at how many replies this thread has gotten. Although I've browsed this forum every now and then for years, and often come across threads on Google...I'm relatively new here, and just recently started visiting multiple times daily. I just think it's kind of funny how if this exact thread were posted on just about any other audio related forum I've been a member of...if it would have even received any reply at all...it would have been 1-2 replies simply stating "NO" without any explanation as to why the statements in the starting thread were completely false, and perhaps followed by a forum member or two making fun and cracking jokes on the thread starter...
I just think it's hilarious that it's still going, but in a good way...
This is one of the few reasons that I like this forum so much. It's a one of a kind, that's for damn sure. If there ARE other ones similar to it, I don't even want to know...as I get lost in reading just about every time I come here every day. I have enough info to read here, lol.
Oh yeah...and someone mentioned the car audio industry being filled with myths. Well, of course the same goes for home audio. But at the same time, I believe that it's more like this.... Home audio, particularly the hi-fi and "audiophile" market, is completely filled with voodoo and snake oil to the point that it has nearly pushed me completely away from it. With the car audio market, I believe that the industry is just filled with a lack of knowledge. That lack of knowledge, along with the fact that there's SO MUCH CRAP out there, is probably a partial result of car audio products being purchased by a wider range of consumers, particularly those of younger age. With that said, car audio shops and retailers are often filled with employees of younger age. Am I making ANY sense here? Probably not. I think I'm just rambling because I'm tired and can't sleep...
For the record, I'm 22 years old.
I'd just like to say a few things that are currently going through my mind...
I'm shocked at how many replies this thread has gotten. Although I've browsed this forum every now and then for years, and often come across threads on Google...I'm relatively new here, and just recently started visiting multiple times daily. I just think it's kind of funny how if this exact thread were posted on just about any other audio related forum I've been a member of...if it would have even received any reply at all...it would have been 1-2 replies simply stating "NO" without any explanation as to why the statements in the starting thread were completely false, and perhaps followed by a forum member or two making fun and cracking jokes on the thread starter...
I just think it's hilarious that it's still going, but in a good way...
This is one of the few reasons that I like this forum so much. It's a one of a kind, that's for damn sure. If there ARE other ones similar to it, I don't even want to know...as I get lost in reading just about every time I come here every day. I have enough info to read here, lol.
Oh yeah...and someone mentioned the car audio industry being filled with myths. Well, of course the same goes for home audio. But at the same time, I believe that it's more like this.... Home audio, particularly the hi-fi and "audiophile" market, is completely filled with voodoo and snake oil to the point that it has nearly pushed me completely away from it. With the car audio market, I believe that the industry is just filled with a lack of knowledge. That lack of knowledge, along with the fact that there's SO MUCH CRAP out there, is probably a partial result of car audio products being purchased by a wider range of consumers, particularly those of younger age. With that said, car audio shops and retailers are often filled with employees of younger age. Am I making ANY sense here? Probably not. I think I'm just rambling because I'm tired and can't sleep...
For the record, I'm 22 years old.
For the record, I'm 19.
I must also agree with you BHTX, I feel the same way about this.
I was just at an audio shop the other day to pick up a new phono cartridge and was given a guy in probably his mid twenties who was supposed to know what he was talking about and sell audio equipment. I was telling him how I designed a balanced phono amp and that the noise floor is lower. His reply was that: "Yeah, it lowers the hertz it picks up eh?" I just smiled back and continued to purchase what I came for in the first place.
I must also agree with you BHTX, I feel the same way about this.
I was just at an audio shop the other day to pick up a new phono cartridge and was given a guy in probably his mid twenties who was supposed to know what he was talking about and sell audio equipment. I was telling him how I designed a balanced phono amp and that the noise floor is lower. His reply was that: "Yeah, it lowers the hertz it picks up eh?" I just smiled back and continued to purchase what I came for in the first place.
Duo said:For the record, I'm 19.
I must also agree with you BHTX, I feel the same way about this.
I was just at an audio shop the other day to pick up a new phono cartridge and was given a guy in probably his mid twenties who was supposed to know what he was talking about and sell audio equipment. I was telling him how I designed a balanced phono amp and that the noise floor is lower. His reply was that: "Yeah, it lowers the hertz it picks up eh?" I just smiled back and continued to purchase what I came for in the first place.
You get the same lack of knowledge in computer stores.
Try buying a PC solely for word-processing and browsing the internet and wait for the BS to come out.
Back to topic...
Well designed amps do not blow up for no reason !!
Within reason, a speaker is a speaker.
So I think this is a myth.
(I wonder if they would try it on that TV program.)
Andy
AndrewT said:
No, I often hear of crazy horn loaded sub systems doing bad things to the houses they're in, which is to be expected with systems like these. On the other hand... other than windshields breaking, sheet metal bending, and doors cracking...I've never seen or heard of a car being "shaken apart". That's a kind of a silly and very general phrase, anyway.
Hi,
I know that the deterioration in my car's structure and fittings is considerable and this is all due to vibration generally from external sources.
I also know that similar deterioration in my house has NEVER been evidenced. Our earthquakes are never above 4.
Why should it follow that a speaker cannot shake a car apart but can shake a house apart when my experience shows the opposite to be possible?
I know that the deterioration in my car's structure and fittings is considerable and this is all due to vibration generally from external sources.
I also know that similar deterioration in my house has NEVER been evidenced. Our earthquakes are never above 4.
Why should it follow that a speaker cannot shake a car apart but can shake a house apart when my experience shows the opposite to be possible?
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