led_zeppelin said:
Depends what you want the amp to sound like. If "good" is not one of your criteria, then the tant will be just fine. Some non-polar electrolytics are okay (Muse ES series, Blackgate N series) but the rest are really dreadful. otherwise I'd do MKP at least, or at least allow room for an MKP bypass.
Yes, non-polarized electrolitic is used by manufacturers 'cause they are cheaper.
" ... Some non-polar electrolytics are okay (Muse ES series, Blackgate N series) but the rest are really dreadful ..." True enough ...
" ... I'd do MKP at least, or at least allow room for an MKP bypass. ..."
Good advise =allow room on your PCB for larger caps or MKP types.
In the case of input caps to pre-amp / op-amp, bigger is better = broader frequency range down into lower bass. Non-polarized only, voltage range in excess of +/- 35 Volts and if 4.7 uF is speced., don't be afraid of 10 uF or even bigger Electro ... MKP type will sound better in most cases.
" ... Some non-polar electrolytics are okay (Muse ES series, Blackgate N series) but the rest are really dreadful ..." True enough ...
" ... I'd do MKP at least, or at least allow room for an MKP bypass. ..."
Good advise =allow room on your PCB for larger caps or MKP types.
In the case of input caps to pre-amp / op-amp, bigger is better = broader frequency range down into lower bass. Non-polarized only, voltage range in excess of +/- 35 Volts and if 4.7 uF is speced., don't be afraid of 10 uF or even bigger Electro ... MKP type will sound better in most cases.
polyprophylene MKP MKT
Hello!
I wouldn't consider anything else but some plastic film capacitor.
Not at the level of 4.7 uF.
At least use
MKT, metalized layers polyester plastic caps
or even better
the sensible diy audio choice for Best Audio HIFI, high fidelity, parameters:
MKP, metalized layers polypropylene plastic caps
As the price and size is not much different for MKT and MKP at around values of 4.7 uF
my choice is simple and cause me no headache at all:
I go for MKP Polyprophylene .... EVERY TIME!
.... it works perfect ... at least for me
.... and for a whole bunch of them other real smart diy audio builders
PS.
If you cant find 4.7 uF film caps or don't have them at home at any time,
you can parallel 1.0 or 2.2 uF caps.
2 x 2.2 in parallel = 4.4 uF
4 x 1.0 in parallel = 4.0 uF
lineup
head of
Lineup Audio Film Caps Inc.
http://lineup.awardspace.com/
Hello!
I wouldn't consider anything else but some plastic film capacitor.
Not at the level of 4.7 uF.
At least use
MKT, metalized layers polyester plastic caps
or even better
the sensible diy audio choice for Best Audio HIFI, high fidelity, parameters:
MKP, metalized layers polypropylene plastic caps
As the price and size is not much different for MKT and MKP at around values of 4.7 uF
my choice is simple and cause me no headache at all:
I go for MKP Polyprophylene .... EVERY TIME!
.... it works perfect ... at least for me
.... and for a whole bunch of them other real smart diy audio builders
PS.
If you cant find 4.7 uF film caps or don't have them at home at any time,
you can parallel 1.0 or 2.2 uF caps.
2 x 2.2 in parallel = 4.4 uF
4 x 1.0 in parallel = 4.0 uF
lineup
head of
Lineup Audio Film Caps Inc.
http://lineup.awardspace.com/
" ... If you cant find 4.7 uF film caps or don't have them at home at any time,
you can parallel 1.0 or 2.2 uF caps.
2 x 2.2 in parallel = 4.4 uF
4 x 1.0 in parallel = 4.0 uF ..."
If this paralleling is required to get the exact value ... then you will need parallel rows of holes / solder pads on your board as well.
you can parallel 1.0 or 2.2 uF caps.
2 x 2.2 in parallel = 4.4 uF
4 x 1.0 in parallel = 4.0 uF ..."
If this paralleling is required to get the exact value ... then you will need parallel rows of holes / solder pads on your board as well.
"X" caps at input?
I've recently put together a JLH "prototype" picking most parts that I had in my personal dump. It works pretty well indeed!
For the input caps I've tried MKP or MKT or PPS caps pulled from old computer power supplies, those big filter caps rated "X" or "Y".
Is there anything against this, in terms of "quality of sound"?
To be in those PSUs they cannot possibly be good quality caps, but they're still made of the prescribed material, aren't they?
(My next try will be some foil caps pulled from old TVs... an old Grundig all packed with WIMAs...)
(The challenge is to build the amp with less than 100 Euros, without sacrificing sound quality -- not too much at least... But this is out of subject here.)
_
I've recently put together a JLH "prototype" picking most parts that I had in my personal dump. It works pretty well indeed!
For the input caps I've tried MKP or MKT or PPS caps pulled from old computer power supplies, those big filter caps rated "X" or "Y".
Is there anything against this, in terms of "quality of sound"?
To be in those PSUs they cannot possibly be good quality caps, but they're still made of the prescribed material, aren't they?
(My next try will be some foil caps pulled from old TVs... an old Grundig all packed with WIMAs...)
(The challenge is to build the amp with less than 100 Euros, without sacrificing sound quality -- not too much at least... But this is out of subject here.)
_
" ... (The challenge is to build the amp with less than 100 Euros, without sacrificing sound quality -- not too much at least... But this is out of subject here.) ..."
For your consideration: http://aussieamplifiers.com/power_amps.htm ... I just got two of the NX-150 (assembled & tested) and the sure are nice ... but this may bust your 100 EU budget ...
( http://3dotaudio.com/ampics.html )
There are a number of "chip amps" & chip amp kits that would be within your budget, however ...
For your consideration: http://aussieamplifiers.com/power_amps.htm ... I just got two of the NX-150 (assembled & tested) and the sure are nice ... but this may bust your 100 EU budget ...
( http://3dotaudio.com/ampics.html )
There are a number of "chip amps" & chip amp kits that would be within your budget, however ...
I recently started useing some Silver Mica Caps in audio circuits and have been getting quite good results...
They are rather large but not as large as Paper oil caps or even some Poly type caps and seem to have a Nice clear warm sound, they are just a little hard to find but I was able to get some when a local Radio shack closed down.....
Just a Thought!!!
They are rather large but not as large as Paper oil caps or even some Poly type caps and seem to have a Nice clear warm sound, they are just a little hard to find but I was able to get some when a local Radio shack closed down.....
Just a Thought!!!
Re: "X" caps at input?
Power supply film caps can have very high quality!
If we are talking X and Y rated caps for mains filtering, they have to stand very high voltage and not cause shortcuts or fire at overload.
The easy rule for film caps, polyester, polypropylene and whatever
is: The bigger The Better
Of course they need to have a certain minimum value of uF, depending on input impedance ( = input resistor of amplifier )
but if they have this uF value
than the Voltage Rating comes as next parameter to raise quality.
For example you can find polypropylene caps at 1uF rated for different voltages:
50 - 100 - 400 and sometimes as high as 1000 Volt.
Those rated 400 Volt are bigger, and more expensive than 50 Volts.
They cost more, because they have better quality in some parameters that can be important for some applications.
To try to find small film caps with better quality than bigger,
as well as try to find any electrolytic capacitor better than even lowest quality film cap,
is really a waste of time!!!
And when it comes to things that can be measured
and so be a quality that can be verified
they wont never match a good cap.
In the end it is up to you.
You may consider how much a couple of inches less of extra space will save you in terms of money and less problems.
And so you can use smaller caps.
But for audio quality that will effect your signal as little as possible
there is no question you would make that extra space
and use best quality and bigger film caps you think is fair amount of money for you to spend.
#######################
For cost of ....
- an overly sized transformer,
- exotic fastest existing schottky diodes for the rectifier handling low freq 50 Hertz input
- twice as much as needed power supply electrolyts
- enormous heatsinks, where half the size would do,
- absolute latest fashion amplifier chassis box
- some fancy hard to find paint for chassis
- exotic wood for amp exterior
- artistic silk screen print for front panel done in special layout machines you have invested in
and other less sound improvement details in an amplifier,
....I could buy me a lifetime supply of good and big Polypropylene MKP caps.
So at least, I do not have to worry about any input caps are a degrading factor
in any of my audio system chains.
#######################
The rules are:
1. Film Capacitors!
2. Bigger is better!
3. From good component suppliers, you will get quality you pay for. Price = Quality.
#######################
lineup
pilli said:
Power supply film caps can have very high quality!
If we are talking X and Y rated caps for mains filtering, they have to stand very high voltage and not cause shortcuts or fire at overload.
The easy rule for film caps, polyester, polypropylene and whatever
is: The bigger The Better
Of course they need to have a certain minimum value of uF, depending on input impedance ( = input resistor of amplifier )
but if they have this uF value
than the Voltage Rating comes as next parameter to raise quality.
For example you can find polypropylene caps at 1uF rated for different voltages:
50 - 100 - 400 and sometimes as high as 1000 Volt.
Those rated 400 Volt are bigger, and more expensive than 50 Volts.
They cost more, because they have better quality in some parameters that can be important for some applications.
To try to find small film caps with better quality than bigger,
as well as try to find any electrolytic capacitor better than even lowest quality film cap,
is really a waste of time!!!
And when it comes to things that can be measured
and so be a quality that can be verified
they wont never match a good cap.
In the end it is up to you.
You may consider how much a couple of inches less of extra space will save you in terms of money and less problems.
And so you can use smaller caps.
But for audio quality that will effect your signal as little as possible
there is no question you would make that extra space
and use best quality and bigger film caps you think is fair amount of money for you to spend.
#######################
For cost of ....
- an overly sized transformer,
- exotic fastest existing schottky diodes for the rectifier handling low freq 50 Hertz input
- twice as much as needed power supply electrolyts
- enormous heatsinks, where half the size would do,
- absolute latest fashion amplifier chassis box
- some fancy hard to find paint for chassis
- exotic wood for amp exterior
- artistic silk screen print for front panel done in special layout machines you have invested in
and other less sound improvement details in an amplifier,
....I could buy me a lifetime supply of good and big Polypropylene MKP caps.
So at least, I do not have to worry about any input caps are a degrading factor
in any of my audio system chains.
#######################
The rules are:
1. Film Capacitors!
2. Bigger is better!
3. From good component suppliers, you will get quality you pay for. Price = Quality.
#######################
lineup
So, did I heard right that the polyprophylen caps are best for audio from all others?
I have to upgrade the shunt caps in my speakers (I'm affraid I damaged them), so a 4.7uF caps are need and are these MKT 63V any good?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=495-1131-ND
I did not need more that 63V, considering the highest powered amp in my setup is from +/-19V, so... a 50V cap would be fine, 63V is plenty.
Good choice from Digi-key?
Or you guys have better pick?
I have to upgrade the shunt caps in my speakers (I'm affraid I damaged them), so a 4.7uF caps are need and are these MKT 63V any good?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=495-1131-ND
I did not need more that 63V, considering the highest powered amp in my setup is from +/-19V, so... a 50V cap would be fine, 63V is plenty.
Good choice from Digi-key?
Or you guys have better pick?
trodas said:So, did I heard right that the polyprophylen caps are best for audio from all others?
I have to upgrade the shunt caps in my speakers (I'm affraid I damaged them), so a 4.7uF caps are need and are these MKT 63V any good?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=495-1131-ND
I did not need more that 63V, considering the highest powered amp in my setup is from +/-19V, so... a 50V cap would be fine, 63V is plenty.
Good choice from Digi-key?
Or you guys have better pick?
I guess you are talking Speaker Crossover caps.
Yes, for the value of 4.7 uF those MKT Polyester digikey would be a very good choice.
It would be my choice, too.
When it comes to higher values ( say > 10 uF ) Film Caps will become a bit expensive.
So, then there are special bipolar electolyts. Often used in crossovers.
Thanks guys, glad I get it right.
I'm sort of audio-noob and hence I did not object suggestions. The polypropylen ones have a very linear characteristics, witch make audiophiles happy - so it should be good for me too.
The size is determined by the schematics. Genius says they are 4.7uF, so I use 4.7uF as presented in this schematics:
Thanks!
I'm sort of audio-noob and hence I did not object suggestions. The polypropylen ones have a very linear characteristics, witch make audiophiles happy - so it should be good for me too.
The size is determined by the schematics. Genius says they are 4.7uF, so I use 4.7uF as presented in this schematics:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Thanks!
Pingrs: It does answer one question: Is there a perfect discrete component ? ... No.
It might be better to find that Dr. Pease' Electronic Design magazine article on capacitors in audio = the one that demonstrates the differences between the various capacitor types. Here is his book.
It might be better to find that Dr. Pease' Electronic Design magazine article on capacitors in audio = the one that demonstrates the differences between the various capacitor types. Here is his book.
Okey, dokey. Now is there any smaller film caps out there, I mean, for lover voltages? These 63V ones are a bit BIG
I mean, they are okay for speakers crossover... but to fit things like these into soundcard, well... now we are talking about whole new challenge I though that like 25V ones could be a bit smaller, so the result will not look as bulky, as some of these audiophiles mods, like this one for example:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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