Lamm v.s Aleph - diyAudio
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Old 20th December 2002, 09:56 AM   #1
panos29 is offline panos29  Greece
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Angry Lamm v.s Aleph

O.k!

I finally found the guts to write this...
Last week I had the super rare chance to hear the Lamm m1.1 monoblocks. this happened at a friend's house where I brought my and aleph30 clone biased at 2,5A/channel and supplied by +/-27V through 680W toroid and 2X100.000uf caps. O.k I know that Lamm monoblocks cost about 20,000$ but I never thought that these monsters will outperform my aleph by this huge margin. The rest of the test system was: meridian 508 CD, aleph L clone pre, audiovector c2 speakers, and alternatively diy tannoy 15" HPDs in 70lt ported enclosures and also an audio research 2X50W CA50. The difference was huge to say the least in every department, note though that my aleph clone is about 35W/ch while lamm is 100+w/ch. I also openned the monster and inside there is a 6922 triode and 10 output mosfets/ch silly screwed on the pcb posts! The construction is excellent with good components all around. I really am speachless of the sheer quality and all-over sound of this amplifier and really feel bad i cannot afford this amp. I really know I cannot of course compare different things of different cost and also commercial state of the art offerings with diy amps, but as a topology I thing that these lamms should have something "magic" in their design and I would love to hear any comments. I am very interested in the overall design idea of these amps and worth investigating by any means!! I would be also very happy to hear any comments of how these may compare to xa200 or other amps. I know that there is no perfect amp, but in my opinion this should be the closest to perfect I have ever heard till now. i am really unable to describe the bass mid and treble of this amp with all kinds of software and I consider it a shocking experience. Any hint or concept upon these amps is veeeeeery welcomed.

FLAMES also WELCOME!

panos
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Old 20th December 2002, 11:30 AM   #2
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Hi Panos

Why am i not surprised with your findings? Don't miss the chance while you're still around the LAMMs - take out a few hi-res pics from both sides of the board and if you don't feel like drawing out the circuit please send them to me, i'll do it with pleasure. Most hybrids are fairly simple, not unlike Pass amps but it's still very interesting to see a full diagram. It may also help to measure PS and the drops on the source resistors - if your host will allow of course.

cheers

peter
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Old 20th December 2002, 01:00 PM   #3
zeno is offline zeno  Europe
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Has anyone ever compared a DIY Pass with a real one from the hands of the One and Only?

Maybe one gets the same sonic difference, due to parts, mechanics etc.



Marc
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Old 20th December 2002, 02:09 PM   #4
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You can find technical details and a circuit description of a similar model on the Lamm web site at http://www.lammindustries.com/reviews/m2audio.html. The circuit is more complex than you might expect, possibly to let the tube LVA stage dominate the amp's overall transfer function.
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Old 20th December 2002, 02:43 PM   #5
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Just when I thought I would build the world greatest amplifier (aleph x)

You can also view some pics including the top view of the PCB at:
http://www.lammindustries.com/products/m2descr.html

There is also two patent (copied from their webside): U.S. Patent No. D368,261; U.S. Patent No. 5,470,795; other patents pending.
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Old 20th December 2002, 03:46 PM   #6
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Comparing a $20k amp and an Aleph 3 on $1000 no-name mid-fi 4 ohm speakers or some drivers discontinued in 1980 seems usless to me.
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Old 20th December 2002, 04:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by creatre
There is also two patent (copied from their webside): U.S. Patent No. D368,261; U.S. Patent No. 5,470,795; other patents pending.
The patents in question are a design patent for "ornamental
design for amplifier" and a utility patent entitled "Method of
connecting terminals of a plastic-encapsulated power
transistor to a printed-circuit board "
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Old 20th December 2002, 07:20 PM   #8
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Default In defence of dual-concentrics

The Tannoys are revealing enough. In fact one can draw perfectly valid conclusions about sound of amps even on much cheaper speakers (a discontinued even before 1980 ESL-57s?) provided the source is good enough.

peter
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Old 20th December 2002, 07:30 PM   #9
Jeff R is offline Jeff R  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by dshortt9
Comparing a $20k amp and an Aleph 3 on $1000 no-name mid-fi 4 ohm speakers or some drivers discontinued in 1980 seems usless to me.
It is always interesting to compare our own homebuilt designs with these leading edge amplifiers. While the speakers being used may be mid-fi, the observer noted a huge difference. We often hear that the reason some people don't hear sonic improvements due to things such as speaker cables and capacitors are because their speakers, or preamps or whatever, are not good enough. Here, we are told that a top quality amplifier can make even mid-fi speakers sound fantastic. I find that important. On a top line set of speakers would the difference in sound be the same? Would the Aleph start to sound better? Worse?

Of course, I wonder what it is that makes this amplifier sound so great. The implication is that a transistor output stage is fine, and that the trouble with all solid state designs is with the voltage amplification stages. That gives me pause, though, as the stages are generally the most linear in a solid state amp.

Questions, questions.....
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Old 20th December 2002, 07:56 PM   #10
vuki is offline vuki  Croatia
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I never had a chance to compare Pass and Lamm amps side by side, but have listened (even reviewed some for magazine http://www.passlabs.com/reviews/x350-X2review.htm ) to them at various occasions. I listened to many Pass' amps (Zen, Alephs 3, 5 , 1.2, L, P, X150, X350, X600, X2 and X2.5) and like them all very much, but Lamm makes wonderful sounding amps too. I think it would be a matter of personal taste to choose better. My opinion is that soundwise both manufacturer's amps are class above Krell, Levinson and other well known high-end products.
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