Swinik VS Quad -- where is your Bridge, gentlemen? - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th October 2006, 04:22 PM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
edl,
I would suggest you to simulate this output stage, it sounds very musical with guitar when driven by a vacuum tube:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...52#post1028552
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers. -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2006, 05:16 PM   #12
edl is offline edl  Hungary
diyAudio Member
 
edl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Hi,

Thanks for the replies!

I really appreciate creative, innovative circuts. I think yours is that! Uses a brainy idea.
I studied Quad-405 a lot (many hundreds - oh not, thousands (!) of clone were bulit, that's the most popular diy project here since 1980...) so I interested to any error-correction - or similar, not conventional - design.
Thanks for sharing the values you remembered.
I starting to look into your circut deeper.

About the hybrid amp:
Hey, that firm wasn't soviet, but hungarian - as me! Unfortanetly after the change of regime, in the early 90's BEAG closed down.
I have some BEAG gear at home: a 100W all-tube monoblock (PP PL509), a 100W/100V solid state industrial amp, and many parts... PCB's, shassis, ...
The Beag goods are seeing my life through.
So thanks for link, I saved the schematic!

Best regards,
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2006, 05:35 PM   #13
latala is offline latala  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: staffordshire
I would like to see if you have any distortion figures for your amp
I myself produced 30 or so amplifiers using a class A/AB/C scheme in the 70s ,These were used at a local disco for about 10 years and though they sounded ok. You could see on a scope the change of tranfer function as the boosters switched on/off!
They sounded ok but I am sure that the distortion figures would not have been that good .
I am not being negative but I know that if it was so simple we would have a world full of skwings!
regards Trevor
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2006, 06:08 PM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally posted by latala
I would like to see if you have any distortion figures for your amp
I myself produced 30 or so amplifiers using a class A/AB/C scheme in the 70s ,These were used at a local disco for about 10 years and though they sounded ok. You could see on a scope the change of tranfer function as the boosters switched on/off!
They sounded ok but I am sure that the distortion figures would not have been that good .
I am not being negative but I know that if it was so simple we would have a world full of skwings!
regards Trevor

Trevor;

unfortunately beliefs and fashions rule the world that's why you may see some not very best topologies repeated, and may disregard yours, despite people say they sound brilliant. Also, don't forget of patents that sometimes work like a dog on a hay: don't eat, but don't permit.

To tune up Swinik I used a triangle from a functional generator on 20 KHz. Unfortunately, THD measurement appliances were not common in design of military analog control systems, so I could not measure percentage of distortions. Also, as I told before, I myself did not believe that I build something extraordinary, I just "cheated to get satisfactory results using cheap methods", as we did in our laboratory works with control systems. However, I was intended to build such an amp in a hybrid IC, but I did not, because refused the work offer for Hybrid IC Laboratory of Tomsk Institute of Semiconducter Devices, because was young and too hot.
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers. -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2006, 10:50 PM   #15
latala is offline latala  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: staffordshire
I seem to remember application notes from National for the LM380 series of amplifiers that used the same scheme as the Swinik where output ransistors were connected in the same way
as in your swinik across a resistor as per R1
I do agee with your basic philosopy re distortion measurements after all we listen to amplifiers with music for 99.9999% of the time
My amplifier that I use at the moment on my personal system is a Crown Dc300a But if you study there distortion figures they are very cunning They quote low leveles up to 50 mW and then low levels at 160 watts and as I have said this is an AB/C design
I wonder what the distortion is at 0.5 watt?
If you like your amp then build it it certainly is simple and potentialy stable
I would always rather pay the penalty in slightly higher distortion figures if it is more reliable
During the early 70 I could not afford good test equipment but by using what was then the latest in op amps built my own distortion analyser using the then latest hi performance op amp TL071
this was a simple arrangement where the out put from the amp was attenuated and then fed into the inverting input to the opamp
the input signal to the pwer amp was also connected to the non inverting input
with carefull adjustment i coulsd resolve to better than 0.1% distortion
the outut of the op amp was measured on a voltmeter /scope
Try something like that on your amp and I feel sure you will see a slow Xover disparity all though I am sure you will not generally hear it
Regards Trev
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2006, 10:58 PM   #16
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
edl;

of course BEAG was Hungarian!
Also, I saw a professional audio studio gear EAG, is it the same?

What do you think of my line arrays, do they look familiar?

http://wavebourn.com/images/pyramid/..._speaker_4.jpg

They are full - range and handle 10 times more power than BEAG vocal line arrays, but smaller in size.

Also, I have a new crazy idea, to combine 2 of my projects, Swinik and Nuclon, in the single amp. Most probably, I'll have to fight against parasitics since 2 high gain stages with 100% NFB differs from the single emitter follower...
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers. -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2006, 11:16 PM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Trev, I actually did not need a distortion measuring equipment for Swinik because it was the inverting amp by nature, but I never had an idea to measure percentage of distortions then, I used it for a bass guitar, so visual strightening of a triangle on a screen of oscilloscope corellated well with what I heard from speakers.

Also, I especially used such tricks so a speaker box and a crossover were designed such a way they had peaks around 500 and 2800 Hz, for the best musicality. No need to fight against resonances if you understand how to use them for good.

Also, I used to generate distortions trying to satisfy my friend, a guitarist of our university band, but never satisfied him completely, he knew what he wanted, but could not explain (I played then bass guitar), also an analog synthesizer was built in a leasure time by my friend, an engineer, who worked on Technology cathedra, using lots of my ideas of what distortions are needed for what sound, and how to get them.

Distortions are my friends. We understand well each other.
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers. -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2006, 11:22 PM   #18
latala is offline latala  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: staffordshire
Well I have to agree re guitar amplification that is an entirely differant matter!I play a little myself and have a few friends that play in bands as such I am always pleased to help with amp repairs etc .
In this case we are making the sound not reproducing these are indeed a very differant animal any - thing goes
Regards Trev
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2006, 11:32 PM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally posted by latala
Well I have to agree re guitar amplification that is an entirely differant matter!I play a little myself and have a few friends that play in bands as such I am always pleased to help with amp repairs etc .
In this case we are making the sound not reproducing these are indeed a very differant animal any - thing goes
Regards Trev
Currently I listen at home through the system I use for sound reinforcement on performances for singers with acoustic guitars, however except microphones and Yamaha MX400-24 mixer.

Here is the subwoofer (isobaric double-speaker loaded by a Low-Q horn):

http://wavebourn.com/images/pyramid/sw_5.jpg

Small speakers on top of it represent improvised "central speaker" for a cinema theater (Sony VPL-PX30 projector)
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers. -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2006, 07:03 PM   #20
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Hi edl;

can you send me e-mail please, using the button on the message?

--Anatoliy
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers. -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how to bridge a Quad 606? moray james Solid State 5 15th December 2007 02:12 AM
Gentlemen, let's start a tour through Lineup Laboratories PMA Solid State 10 30th September 2006 07:42 PM
Whats the difference between full bridge and half-bridge SMPS ? skaara Class D 6 3rd February 2005 07:23 PM
Bridge Rectifier Replacements and Single-to-Quad Adapters?? Sampsa Parts 0 15th June 2004 03:09 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:01 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2