Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th August 2006, 09:50 AM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Janneman

Quote:
Originally posted by clem_o


How would it stack against SACD? Given the level of equipment there, this would be the real acid test!

Cheers

Well, can't prove it, but my gut feeling is that it had to do with how well the source material was transferred to the CD versus the LP. I would guess that a direct to disk LP would sound better (as in more lifelike and realistic) than a CD master mixed down umpteen times from a dozen tracks going through 100 opamps in several consoles. IOW, the CD may be better wrt distortion, noise, freq response etc but if the source material is inferior it's a lost battle for those 0's and 1's.

I think the real acid test is to digitize the output of the phono preamp through a high quality ADC and write it to CD , and then compare the CD to the LP.

Jan Didden
__________________
Never explain - your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe you anyway - E. Hubbart
Check out Linear Audio Vol 7
!
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 09:52 AM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Quote:
Originally posted by pinkmouse
That room is bigger than my house. And the kit probably cost more as well!

Prossibly. Surely.

Jan Didden
__________________
Never explain - your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe you anyway - E. Hubbart
Check out Linear Audio Vol 7
!
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 10:19 AM   #13
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
lumanauw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bandung
Send a message via Yahoo to lumanauw
Quote:
umm it is good to see you guys taking pictures together being friends umm thats all
You know, that's the best part I often wonder what this member looks like, what's that member looks like, what Mikeks looks like. It's nice to meet the person.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 10:27 AM   #14
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
PMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Prague
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Janneman

Quote:
Originally posted by clem_o


How would it stack against SACD? Given the level of equipment there, this would be the real acid test!

Cheers
The LP would still win. Contemporary digital is still far from optimum, unfortunatelly. I speak about "side effects", not the text-book definitions.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 10:40 AM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
Circlotron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by lumanauw
You know, that's the best part I often wonder what this member looks like, what's that member looks like, what Mikeks looks like. It's nice to meet the person.
We did that about 4 years ago.
Ugly face contest.
Feel free to add your picture.
__________________
Best-ever T/S parameter spreadsheet.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...tml#post353269
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 11:24 AM   #16
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Germany
How about an LP mastered from the same digital master (probably 20 to 24 bit / 96 kHz) as the CD?

In that case, the CD should win hands down if a good SRC and dithering were used. If not, we can conclude that some wow and flutter, distortion and noise are actually beneficial, and we can redesign the downsamplers to include them synthetically

(speaking only partly tongue in cheek)
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 11:29 AM   #17
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
PMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Prague
Quote:
Originally posted by capslock
How about an LP mastered from the same digital master (probably 20 to 24 bit / 96 kHz) as the CD?

In that case, the CD should win hands down if a good SRC and dithering were used. If not, we can conclude that some wow and flutter, distortion and noise are actually beneficial, and we can redesign the downsamplers to include them synthetically

(speaking only partly tongue in cheek)
You know the 0.55Hz jitter is more acceptable than digital jitter , and digital HF residuals are not acceptable at all
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 12:26 PM   #18
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
lumanauw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bandung
Send a message via Yahoo to lumanauw
I hear the same song, the same album, but from 2 sources, LP and CD.
With CD, the stage width seems limited only to the sides of the speakers, the sound cannot be farther than speaker sides.
With LP the stage seems to be able 2m more left and 2m more right than the speaker sides. Test is made with eyes closed.

I know that audio CD (not XRCD or HDCD or audio DVD) has bandwith only up to 22.05khz, because there is "brickwall" filter.

What is the max frequency that LP can store?

If it is higher than 22.05khz, could it be that this "super-sonic" data that is making the LP sounds wider? By intermodulation?
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 12:31 PM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Munich
Hi,
I am frequently stating that I am to deaf to hear differences between speaker cables.
But I must confess that in all my LP / CD competitions the old fashioned LP won the race. By far.
Besides digital jitter it might also be the fact that the digitized
signal is suffering from missing information, while the LP is suffering from added noise. Might be quite different for our ears.
Also ...Shannon or not... who of us would like to judge a sine wave on his scope just from 3 captured points? And that's what the CD sampling rate means at 15kHz. ... of course I can reconstruct a sinewave from this, if a assume that it is a sine wave... But my eyes do not like such scope pictures...
In fact, if I look to the low sampling rate I am quite amazed how good these CDs can sound. They can sound good enough, that I changed from CD to LP, because of practical reasons.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2006, 01:07 PM   #20
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Quote:
Originally posted by ChocoHolic
Hi,
I am frequently stating that I am to deaf to hear differences between speaker cables.
But I must confess that in all my LP / CD competitions the old fashioned LP won the race. By far.
Besides digital jitter it might also be the fact that the digitized
signal is suffering from missing information, while the LP is suffering from added noise. Might be quite different for our ears.
Also ...Shannon or not... who of us would like to judge a sine wave on his scope just from 3 captured points? And that's what the CD sampling rate means at 15kHz. ... of course I can reconstruct a sinewave from this, if a assume that it is a sine wave... But my eyes do not like such scope pictures...
In fact, if I look to the low sampling rate I am quite amazed how good these CDs can sound. They can sound good enough, that I changed from CD to LP, because of practical reasons.
These are some valid points, but on the 15kHz - 3 samples issue, if you sent that reconstituted signal through the post DAC filters that are always present, you really will see a SINE wave on your scope!

And yes, the CD has shortcomings like jitter, but what about LP jitter? Fast vibration of variations in replay speed, wow, flutter, what have you. No, I still think it it NOT a difference in technical specs, because if that was it, LP's would lose on all counts.

I think it has to do with the way the music is mastered to the LP or to the CD. If the CD mastering process loses more stuff on its way to the CD than with LP mastering, CD's would be expected to sound inferior.

But I cannot prove it. Yet.

Jan Didden
__________________
Never explain - your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe you anyway - E. Hubbart
Check out Linear Audio Vol 7
!
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Janneman and SY dueling avatars jan.didden The Lounge 6 20th May 2004 10:20 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:44 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2