Amp for Manger drivers - Page 3

Tenson · 20th June 2006, 09:35 PM

I don't mind! I have done my fair share of recording and measurements etc.. so it is interesting.

I think maybe the roll-off is caused by the way the Manger makes the sound in 'rings'. If the ring at near the outside of the Manger ends up cancelling the one from the centre then that could cause the roll-off.

You can see there that at 10KHz there are quite a few rings where the sound is being emitted.

john curl · 20th June 2006, 10:12 PM

Tenson, I agree. I think that the final rolloff is some sort of 'cancellation' rather than a normal type of filter action, like most direct radiators. It is just too fast.

Tenson · 20th June 2006, 11:30 PM

Oopa, I see that my image link didn't work. I meant to link this

Tenson · 21st June 2006, 10:34 PM

Hmm I don't think I have the skills to build that amp EUVL linked two, and I don't think it will meet the 250-400watts spec anyway will it?

Are there any modules or PCB's I can buy that go up this high and offer good amounts of power?

How much of the benefit from having high frequency bandwidth do you think 150KHz would bring?

EUVL · 22nd June 2006, 05:18 AM

Why would you need 250W for a Manger ?
100W Class A is MORE than enough.

You can always build a chip amp, or a Krell clone shown here on the forum.

Patrick

jacco vermeulen · 22nd June 2006, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EUVL
You can always build a chip amp

Or a Schäfer and Rompf.

phase_accurate · 22nd June 2006, 10:53 AM

The quest for "fast" amplifiers comes from Manger's philosophy of keeping group-delay distortions as low as possible.
While high-bandwidth amplifiers do indeed help in this respect this is a completely wrong way of trying to achieve low group delay IMO.

I by myself use my MSWs with a "sluggish" 100kHz bandwidth amp with only 100 Watts of output power currently.

Regards

Charles

EUVL · 22nd June 2006, 11:27 AM

> I by myself use my MSWs with a "sluggish" 100kHz bandwidth amp with only 100 Watts of output power currently.

Try it with 350kHz in an A-B test and come back to tell us the difference.

(100W would do fine.)

Patrick

Tenson · 22nd June 2006, 11:30 AM

How do you keep the group delay nice and low then?

I need more than 100watts for the Manger. I like Loud and clean music. That means enormous peak capability. My woofer section will be running 2x 12" high output Eminence drivers each side with 500watts each.

At the moment I am running 1 woofer a side with only 250watts a channel and it is plenty for my small room but I would like to know what I will use if I want to use the speakers in much larger rooms.

phase_accurate · 22nd June 2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

How do you keep the group delay nice and low then?

The task as such is a very easy one from a technical point of view. The problem lies elsewhere.

If your whole chain (recording and playback) behaves like a Bessel lowpass then you have constant group delay whithin the passband.
In that case a cutoff-frequency between 40 and 60 kHz should definitely be sufficient IMO.

In order to work properly the whole thing would have to be standardised (i.e. which part of the chain has which pole-frequency and Q value) which would be a real PITA !!!!

Regards

Charles

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20th June 2006, 09:35 PM	#21
Tenson diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kent	I don't mind! I have done my fair share of recording and measurements etc.. so it is interesting. I think maybe the roll-off is caused by the way the Manger makes the sound in 'rings'. If the ring at near the outside of the Manger ends up cancelling the one from the centre then that could cause the roll-off. You can see there that at 10KHz there are quite a few rings where the sound is being emitted.

20th June 2006, 10:12 PM	#22
john curl diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: berkeley ca	Tenson, I agree. I think that the final rolloff is some sort of 'cancellation' rather than a normal type of filter action, like most direct radiators. It is just too fast.

20th June 2006, 11:30 PM	#23
Tenson diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kent	Oopa, I see that my image link didn't work. I meant to link this

21st June 2006, 10:34 PM	#24
Tenson diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kent	Hmm I don't think I have the skills to build that amp EUVL linked two, and I don't think it will meet the 250-400watts spec anyway will it? Are there any modules or PCB's I can buy that go up this high and offer good amounts of power? How much of the benefit from having high frequency bandwidth do you think 150KHz would bring?

22nd June 2006, 05:18 AM	#25
EUVL diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2003	Why would you need 250W for a Manger ? 100W Class A is MORE than enough. You can always build a chip amp, or a Krell clone shown here on the forum. Patrick

22nd June 2006, 10:53 AM	#27
phase_accurate diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland	The quest for "fast" amplifiers comes from Manger's philosophy of keeping group-delay distortions as low as possible. While high-bandwidth amplifiers do indeed help in this respect this is a completely wrong way of trying to achieve low group delay IMO. I by myself use my MSWs with a "sluggish" 100kHz bandwidth amp with only 100 Watts of output power currently. Regards Charles

22nd June 2006, 11:27 AM	#28
EUVL diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2003	> I by myself use my MSWs with a "sluggish" 100kHz bandwidth amp with only 100 Watts of output power currently. Try it with 350kHz in an A-B test and come back to tell us the difference. (100W would do fine.) Patrick

22nd June 2006, 11:30 AM	#29
Tenson diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kent	How do you keep the group delay nice and low then? I need more than 100watts for the Manger. I like Loud and clean music. That means enormous peak capability. My woofer section will be running 2x 12" high output Eminence drivers each side with 500watts each. At the moment I am running 1 woofer a side with only 250watts a channel and it is plenty for my small room but I would like to know what I will use if I want to use the speakers in much larger rooms.