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Old 18th September 2001, 06:33 AM   #11
Ignite is offline Ignite  Canada
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A note one peltier units:
Make sure you're not cooling the water below the ambient room temperature unless you want to rust your amplifier. I've destroyed a motherboard with condensation.
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Old 18th September 2001, 05:33 PM   #12
tvi is offline tvi  Australia
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Have a look at Evolves water cooled non-feedback 2SB754/2SD384 SEPP 30W Class A amp, he even mounts the amp in the speaker enclosures
<a href="http://www.ne.jp/asahi/evo/amp/b753d843w/intro.htm">Link</a>

Regards
James
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Old 24th February 2006, 08:09 PM   #13
latala is offline latala  United Kingdom
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Default water cooled amplifier

i know its a while since this was posted
but have you thought of oil cooling i did this about 25 years ago wth a class a design in fact i cut open the outer case of the output transistors so that the oil actually contacted the junctions
this was a 30 watt class a design that i used to drive a pair of b+w dm6 result fantastic as long as you use the good clean oil it seemed to be trouble free as i remember i made a tank that held about a gallon of oil and totally imersed the output devices in the oil bath it only ever ran warm to the touch never really hot while developing it i noticed how the oil seamed to convect from the junctions
the amplifier was also a self biasing design of my own that i hope to put on the forum when i sort myself out re puting on schematics as i have a few ideas that i have not seen yet
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Old 24th February 2006, 10:14 PM   #14
AKSA is offline AKSA  Australia
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More than 15 years ago I water cooled a high power Crescendo amp. Interesting exercise, wouldn't do it again.

1. Heat exchanger was welded Al channel section, capped at each end with a ledge for the semis.
2. 10mm clear plastic tubing for the water.
3. Purge pump from a discarded dishwasher, scaled back for flow with a loopback around the pump and adjustable 'feedback' valve.
4. Small one litre reservoir mounted outside the room just above the amp to eliminate air pockets.
5. Level sensor in the reservoir (simple IC comparator triac connected to a solenoid from mains water to refill should the level drop).
6. Water lines buried in the ground for a distance of 12 feet to absorb the heat.


The system worked well for about five years. I had no problems with corrosion or bacteria. The heatsink ran below room temperature, but did not seem to damage the amp with condensation. It was cumbersome, not at all portable, and the pump made the all usual cranking noises of a primitive, shaded pole motor. It used a fair amount of additional power, and any fault had the potential to stop it dead, although there were very few problems. Occasionally you could hear a gentle susuration as the water coursed through the pipes and 'sinks. It was oddly distracting when listening to quiet music, something I never got used to.

I would not recommend it as too much infrastructure is needed and reliability problems could lead to catastrophic failure.

In the last ten years a huge variety of quiet fans have become available. These are outstanding, particularly the larger 120 x 120mm DC versions with low speed (typically 1800 rpm). Papst make temperature controlled fans which are around 21dBa, and with careful mounting, and use of a plenum chamber, it's possible to bring fan noise to below room ambient.

Since fans increase heatsink dissipation around three times, it's a very effective way to remove heat. I once tested five mosfets at a combined 175W on a single 150 x 200 sink with a half speed Sanko 120 x 120mm fan. Air flow was very small, just discernible six inches out from the sink. Temperature rise over a long period of several hours stabilised to 27C over ambient; this is better than 0.16C/watt, some three times better than the still air rating. Forced air cooling also distributes the heat more evenly across the sink, which allows greater device packing density.

While PC fans/heatsinks are now very efficient with 50W dissipations commonplace, generally these fans are high speed and fairly noisy. Nothing beats a low speed fan, and a 120 x 120mm fan can exactly match the end profile of two MF18 Conrad heatsinks I use, which are specifically designed for forced air cooling. For projects using SE mosfets - all you Pass guys out there - this is a very effective, reliable, and inexpensive solution.

Cheers,

Hugh
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Old 24th February 2006, 11:32 PM   #15
Bazukaz is offline Bazukaz  Lithuania
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CPU liquid cooling is absolutely a different story.They use a peltier to cool down the chip below 0 celsius , and a liquid cooler system to remove large amounts of heat.It is only useful for overclocking.
My opinion is that liquid cooling is not practical for amplifiers , unless you have to remove kilowatts of power.
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Old 24th February 2006, 11:50 PM   #16
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Once upon a time......

in 1979 I build a 2channel poweramp with 80 workinghorses in two half-bridges.......
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Old 24th February 2006, 11:59 PM   #17
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.....further components :

1 EI-transformer 4kVA
2 heat-cooler from Fiat124S
3 7l transformer oil
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Old 25th February 2006, 12:09 AM   #18
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..the expansion vessel was in the container at the top, together with the 2N3055s. It was made from a folded Perbunan skin also the the tubes must use this material, because the hot oil solves plastics..
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Old 25th February 2006, 12:12 AM   #19
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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AKSA:

Allowing for some fan noise, air cooling may reduce heatsink-to-ambient thermal resistance even by 10:1. Computers take advantage of that fact.


powerbecker:

That's lovely, do you have more pictures or the entire article?
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Old 25th February 2006, 12:34 AM   #20
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The pump and the blower used old gap pol engines, both of them are temperature regulated, but you can hear it working gentle.
The pump motor also stand in oil, together with his regulation powertransitor, this is the small box beside the cooler..
This poweramp sounds nice with my 100W Canton boxes...
I gave them really 1000W in peaks !
So I got the feeling I hear a JBL-Paragon with 50W
Regards
Heinz!
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