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Old 26th January 2006, 07:38 AM   #1
beppe61 is offline beppe61  Italy
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Default Sanken 2SC2922 datasheet.

Dear Sirs,


looking at the Sanken 2SC2922's datasheet I cannot find a value of the max peak current available from it.
Do anyone have an idea?

Moreover I am looking for extremely simply schematics (minimum number of active devices) of power amps of about 50-70 W/8 ohm using just a single output pair 2SC2922/2SA1216 (something like the LCAudio Millenium XP power amp of which I could not find the schematic).

Thank you very much indeed.

Kind regards,

beppe
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Old 26th January 2006, 07:48 AM   #2
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Try datasheetarchive.com
They have most every pdf datasheet around
for FREE:

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/
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Old 26th January 2006, 07:57 AM   #3
beppe61 is offline beppe61  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by lineup
Try datasheetarchive.com
They have most every pdf datasheet around
for FREE:

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/

Dear Sir,

thanks a lot for the very kind and valuable help.
The datasheet says 17 A continuous and 20 A peak.
I believed a bigger difference between the two value.

Thank you sincerely.
Kind regards,

beppe
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Old 26th January 2006, 08:03 AM   #4
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Default Re: Sanken 2SC2922 datasheet.

Quote:
Originally posted by beppe61
... something like the LCAudio Millenium XP power amp
of which I could not find the schematic ....
technical info of LC Audio 'The End Millennium'
The End Millennium XP Technical

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 26th January 2006, 08:09 AM   #5
beppe61 is offline beppe61  Italy
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Default Re: Re: Sanken 2SC2922 datasheet.

Quote:
Originally posted by lineup
technical info of LC Audio 'The End Millennium'
The End Millennium XP Technical
Click the image to open in full size.
Thanks a lot Sir.

I really hoped the topology were much simpler.
Too many gain stages for my tastes.
I really cannot find a minimalist, that for me is something like the old Harman Kardon Citation 12 (schematic not very clear), power amp (think of 5-6 bjt plus a single very strong output pair).
IMHO these topologies give the max possibility of a good sound (and they are also cheap too !!).

Thank you sincerely.
Kind regards,

beppe
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Old 26th January 2006, 08:18 AM   #6
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Millennium is non-feedback amplifier.
This is why it can not be too simple.

With feedback you can make more minimalist amplifier.

2SC2922 and 2SA1215 are really top class transistors,
if you can find them
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Old 26th January 2006, 08:35 AM   #7
beppe61 is offline beppe61  Italy
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[QUOTE]
Dear Sir,
thank you so much again for your extremely kind and valuable reply.

> Originally posted by lineup

[B]Millennium is non-feedback amplifier.
This is why it can not be too simple.

- I really believed exactly the opposite.
This demonstrates my almost complete ignorance!

> With feedback you can make more minimalist amplifier.

Like ? Would you have any example at hand?
I really much like the HK Citation 12 (bjt version) but I think that something in the schematic available in the web is not complete clear, at least for me.
My dream is to find a kit of a Citation 12 clone "on steroids", with the exceptional Sanken pair.

> 2SC2922 and 2SA1215 are really top class transistors,
if you can find them

- and this is something that I really do not understand.
I have no doubt about their exceptional quality and performance.
So why are they not much more common?
I am an ignorant but if I were an audio designer these would be the my bjts of choice.
I do not think that they are that difficult to build.
And in most of case a simple output pair would suffice.
Really really strange.

Thank you very much again.

Kind regards,

beppe
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Old 26th January 2006, 09:20 AM   #8
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2SA1215/2SC2921 and 2SA1216/2SC2922

The datasheets have a safe operating area (SOA) graph.
The Sankens:
for DC the peak current is 17 amps.
for a single 10mS burst peak current is 35 amps

Beppe,
you could construct the regular End Millenium LC.
These devices have been used for around 25 years.
Parts cost and difference in design philosophy will be factors why these are not the single choice of output devices, availability another.
20 years ago these Sankens were employed only in +$10.000 amplifiers, lower device prices and better logistics made them available for consumer electronics and diy.
20 years ago i paid 3 times as much compared to current prices.
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Old 26th January 2006, 09:33 AM   #9
beppe61 is offline beppe61  Italy
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by jacco vermeulen

Dear Mr. Vermeulen,
thank you so much for your extremely kind and much valuable reply.

> [B]2SA1215/2SC2921 and 2SA1216/2SC2922
The datasheets have a safe operating area (SOA) graph.
The Sankens:
for DC the peak current is 17 amps.
for a single 10mS burst peak current is 35 amps

WOW !!! that is quite a lot indeed !
Dear Mr. Vermeulen,
as you have certainly understood I am almost complete ignorant in electronics.
I just built very basic kit of power supply.
My question anyway remains, and I would like very much indeed to know your point of view, that is:

if devices of this quality are readily available on the market why so few DIY or commercial high-end power amps use them?

As I said I am almost completely ignorant, but you can be sure that if I knew how to design a power amp I would selected these family of devices without any hesitation.

Thank you very very much indeed for your explanation.

Kind regards,

beppe

P.S. 35 Amps. WOW ! no need to match anything. REWOW !
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Old 26th January 2006, 10:35 AM   #10
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Beppe,
see added post above.
In the mid 80s other devices like Toshiba 2SA1302/2SC3281 were also only used in expensive gear by Western companies.
Using them in more favorably priced amplifiers was likely to be too expensive.
In Japan those devices were used both in consumer market amplifiers and high end gear as they were readily available and probably for very low prices.
Even now you see that a US company for example is likely to use OnSemi devices such as MJL1302/3281 because of ease of logistics.
Logistics adds costs that only big companies can handle through economy of scale. Getting it from far away means getting plenty.
Bare in mind that the audio business is incredibly volatile, much of it is hear say and a lot of audio lovers are very subjective and unreliable as a customer.
But i agree, with the price level and availability of these devices nowadays they should be the number one choice.
Trouble is that the average audiophile has to invest a lot of indepth energy and become a semi-designer to find out.
I used to be a consumer, because i desired to find out what makes something better than the other i became interested in electronics, now i am a diy guy and buying ready made is a real threshold because of it.
Regular consumers read magazines and buy on looks and trends.
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