Thank you Mr. Greg Erskine, to wake up me once again to finish my tests with Multi-amplification.
Your bi amplification ideas, also used by Panasonic, remembered me to return to my old ideas.
And they worked in some way that can beat every system you presented me....of course, the non multi amplifiers systems.
I am needing instructions of how to produce input filters, electronic crossovers using Op amps.... to produce some active input, as i tried some awfull try and error capacitors to test the idea.
Here is a text about:
Politically correct, adequated to diy communitty, guarantee of peacefull relation with your wife, better sonic reproduction, vastly superior sound stage, reduction of intermodulation distortions, a more pretty speakers, as none speakers will be seen, less expensive speakers as they will be cheap and simple, more undistorted power to you, possibility to make real use of the many amplifiers you have beeing, now a days, a dust deposit in your home, possibility to use the brands you prefer, including your non-audiophile amplifiers too, Surround effects even using monaural audio sources, better surround system when listening to DVDs and the non need to many equipments producing that enormous rack with equalizers, audio processors, multiple amplifiers, enormous speakers, and all that stuff.
The best possible audio reproduction, beating the better amplifiers, considered alone reproducing music, and beating also headphone, beeing more confortable and using less expensive speakers.
The idea is old, is the multi amplifier system….having a very strong amplifier only for subwoofer, 2 channels to use to low mids, 2 channels to hi mids , two channels for hi frequencies, and one channel beeing the phase error you can have using the red wires output, the live output cables from your stereo…..perceive here that you can have many center channels…center to mids, center to highs….. all your amplifiers can go inside a single enclosure, and more cheap speakers have to be inside simple , non ressonant enclosures, small and keept hidden in your room.
The use of adequated drivers, to each frequency, will produce better sound, not needing of passive filters, those speaker crossovers that distort and create enormous problems to amplifiers, as they are a very complex loads.
The mid amplifier will need an op amp cutting low and cutting high frequency….this way, selecting the bandwidth you decide…I could not make this way, but using some passive, not well adjusted input filters, even very wrong and bad made, could show me that is the best possible soluction to have a vastly superior audio reproduction…the sound stage is something you will choice when you decide were to put your speakers, so, there’s a real spatial positioning that will be very helpful to you brain deduced sound stage, your brains phase and level analiser, that “thing” make you understand were are the instruments.
A more peacefull relation with your wife, as they normally do not apreciate our mess with many amplifiers and much worst, our enormous speakers, that have nothing adequated to your wife’s furniture.
Only Hi Mids, for instance, going to a hi mid driver, those ones are hard to move, special Mid range drivers, not using capacitor, will “show” to its amplifier output a much better load, also, reducing the bandwidth that is going in, you will reduce the intermodulation problems.
Each amplifier may have its separated supply, with rectifiers and filters adequated to the amplifier power…. This will produce wonderfull sound, as nothing will interfere with nothing..
I made simple tests with three channels here…monaural recording appear wonderfull, I tested stereo using a common amplifier as the second channel and the result was incredible, also tried surround effects…so..it is compatible with our monaural, stereo and also “surround effects”
This system can use your Junk speakers…. Your not used amplifiers can go into work, and if the amplifier is the better one or not will be something secondary, also, you can choice adequated amplifiers to adequated spectrum.
Try it!….. you will be more happy…satisfaction guaranteed, as quality differences are so obvious that no one will dennie.
Regards,
Carlos
Your bi amplification ideas, also used by Panasonic, remembered me to return to my old ideas.
And they worked in some way that can beat every system you presented me....of course, the non multi amplifiers systems.
I am needing instructions of how to produce input filters, electronic crossovers using Op amps.... to produce some active input, as i tried some awfull try and error capacitors to test the idea.
Here is a text about:
Politically correct, adequated to diy communitty, guarantee of peacefull relation with your wife, better sonic reproduction, vastly superior sound stage, reduction of intermodulation distortions, a more pretty speakers, as none speakers will be seen, less expensive speakers as they will be cheap and simple, more undistorted power to you, possibility to make real use of the many amplifiers you have beeing, now a days, a dust deposit in your home, possibility to use the brands you prefer, including your non-audiophile amplifiers too, Surround effects even using monaural audio sources, better surround system when listening to DVDs and the non need to many equipments producing that enormous rack with equalizers, audio processors, multiple amplifiers, enormous speakers, and all that stuff.
The best possible audio reproduction, beating the better amplifiers, considered alone reproducing music, and beating also headphone, beeing more confortable and using less expensive speakers.
The idea is old, is the multi amplifier system….having a very strong amplifier only for subwoofer, 2 channels to use to low mids, 2 channels to hi mids , two channels for hi frequencies, and one channel beeing the phase error you can have using the red wires output, the live output cables from your stereo…..perceive here that you can have many center channels…center to mids, center to highs….. all your amplifiers can go inside a single enclosure, and more cheap speakers have to be inside simple , non ressonant enclosures, small and keept hidden in your room.
The use of adequated drivers, to each frequency, will produce better sound, not needing of passive filters, those speaker crossovers that distort and create enormous problems to amplifiers, as they are a very complex loads.
The mid amplifier will need an op amp cutting low and cutting high frequency….this way, selecting the bandwidth you decide…I could not make this way, but using some passive, not well adjusted input filters, even very wrong and bad made, could show me that is the best possible soluction to have a vastly superior audio reproduction…the sound stage is something you will choice when you decide were to put your speakers, so, there’s a real spatial positioning that will be very helpful to you brain deduced sound stage, your brains phase and level analiser, that “thing” make you understand were are the instruments.
A more peacefull relation with your wife, as they normally do not apreciate our mess with many amplifiers and much worst, our enormous speakers, that have nothing adequated to your wife’s furniture.
Only Hi Mids, for instance, going to a hi mid driver, those ones are hard to move, special Mid range drivers, not using capacitor, will “show” to its amplifier output a much better load, also, reducing the bandwidth that is going in, you will reduce the intermodulation problems.
Each amplifier may have its separated supply, with rectifiers and filters adequated to the amplifier power…. This will produce wonderfull sound, as nothing will interfere with nothing..
I made simple tests with three channels here…monaural recording appear wonderfull, I tested stereo using a common amplifier as the second channel and the result was incredible, also tried surround effects…so..it is compatible with our monaural, stereo and also “surround effects”
This system can use your Junk speakers…. Your not used amplifiers can go into work, and if the amplifier is the better one or not will be something secondary, also, you can choice adequated amplifiers to adequated spectrum.
Try it!….. you will be more happy…satisfaction guaranteed, as quality differences are so obvious that no one will dennie.
Regards,
Carlos
http://sound.westhost.com/projects-3.htm
http://www.marchandelec.com/xovers.html
i like the xm16 48dB
just some links
beware of turn on thumps with tweeters
or dc offset
not caps to protect
allan
http://www.marchandelec.com/xovers.html
i like the xm16 48dB
just some links
beware of turn on thumps with tweeters
or dc offset
not caps to protect
allan
Hi Carlos,
These links are to sites where I have been getting my information, hope it helps:
http://sound.westhost.com/articles.htm
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_asp.htm
http://www.anidian.com/audio/construct/mox.shtml
http://www.delta-audio.com/Active filter two.htm
regards
These links are to sites where I have been getting my information, hope it helps:
http://sound.westhost.com/articles.htm
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_asp.htm
http://www.anidian.com/audio/construct/mox.shtml
http://www.delta-audio.com/Active filter two.htm
regards
*I was thinking...this idea is very nice...i am proud of it"
Someone, once told me:
- “Woman are almost the same, they can have different hairs, appearance, adresses, but they are almost the same”
In some aspects this can be true, well, i am going to my third marriage believing in those ideas, and also, having the strong belief, for sure, that I am a complete idiot…as errors we can make once….. maybe twice, but three times is absurd…non sense.
My problem is that I love them….oh!…how I am week related woman.
They hate speakers, for them speakers have to be invisible, or the smallest possible, the diafragm may have the wall colour, not black, not with, not silver…. Something that you cannot see is better….wires cannot be observed…the thinner the wires the better will be related your wife…better to use telephone wires…in the walls corners…on at wall A and other At wall B…this way…reduce capacitance, increasing distance, and producing less visibility to your wife….the white telephone wires can be painted with the same wall color…you can travel wires into corners, ot even open a crash and construct an electroduct…some tube with audio wires inside…this is better.
For womans, the amplifier will be good if small, if not shinny, if not ligths in the panel, and if you keep it hidden behind a frame, under a sofa or something this way will be better.
You already have many amplifiers….and they can work with half power, and together produce a high quality sound, and not receiving all audio bandwidth, they can be optimised to their own possibilities and characteristics, as no amplifier can reproduce perfectly all bandwidth…. There are always some weekness here or there…good treble and bad bass….wonderfull bass and mufled trebles,…and this way things goes.
The subwoofer, under 100 hertz must have 200 or 400 watts RMS…this way will be nice with others 50 watts amplifiers running 50 percent of their maximum capacities.
Make small enclosures…the smallest possible..untuned…painted in the wall color..hidden if possible….behing some cloths maybe, but this will mufled the trebles…well, you will find solution…the power amplifiers, can be hidden…assembled in a center table…. Alike a small sofa…. With power units inside….subwoofer enormous power, and maybe some 15 inches speakers too…to bass….. do you think that 6 inches or 8 inches produce the same bass than a 15 inches?…oh!..bill sheet, not really?…try it again!
You may use all stuff you have and buy more amplifiers, or construct more units, ot finish those ones that are in the way doing.
And will produce peace inside your home, a wonderfull unbeatable system…as distortion will be reduced, not crossovers, adequated speakers and half power operation.
regards,
Carlos
Someone, once told me:
- “Woman are almost the same, they can have different hairs, appearance, adresses, but they are almost the same”
In some aspects this can be true, well, i am going to my third marriage believing in those ideas, and also, having the strong belief, for sure, that I am a complete idiot…as errors we can make once….. maybe twice, but three times is absurd…non sense.
My problem is that I love them….oh!…how I am week related woman.
They hate speakers, for them speakers have to be invisible, or the smallest possible, the diafragm may have the wall colour, not black, not with, not silver…. Something that you cannot see is better….wires cannot be observed…the thinner the wires the better will be related your wife…better to use telephone wires…in the walls corners…on at wall A and other At wall B…this way…reduce capacitance, increasing distance, and producing less visibility to your wife….the white telephone wires can be painted with the same wall color…you can travel wires into corners, ot even open a crash and construct an electroduct…some tube with audio wires inside…this is better.
For womans, the amplifier will be good if small, if not shinny, if not ligths in the panel, and if you keep it hidden behind a frame, under a sofa or something this way will be better.
You already have many amplifiers….and they can work with half power, and together produce a high quality sound, and not receiving all audio bandwidth, they can be optimised to their own possibilities and characteristics, as no amplifier can reproduce perfectly all bandwidth…. There are always some weekness here or there…good treble and bad bass….wonderfull bass and mufled trebles,…and this way things goes.
The subwoofer, under 100 hertz must have 200 or 400 watts RMS…this way will be nice with others 50 watts amplifiers running 50 percent of their maximum capacities.
Make small enclosures…the smallest possible..untuned…painted in the wall color..hidden if possible….behing some cloths maybe, but this will mufled the trebles…well, you will find solution…the power amplifiers, can be hidden…assembled in a center table…. Alike a small sofa…. With power units inside….subwoofer enormous power, and maybe some 15 inches speakers too…to bass….. do you think that 6 inches or 8 inches produce the same bass than a 15 inches?…oh!..bill sheet, not really?…try it again!
You may use all stuff you have and buy more amplifiers, or construct more units, ot finish those ones that are in the way doing.
And will produce peace inside your home, a wonderfull unbeatable system…as distortion will be reduced, not crossovers, adequated speakers and half power operation.
regards,
Carlos
Le plaisir est pour mois...merci beaucoup, vout etes très gentille.
The pleasure is to myself, thank you, you are very kind.
J'aime les Canadiens, les françaises, Du Quebec ce sont bonnes amis.
Aussi je aime les Austrelienes.... aussi trés bonne personnes.
au revoìr.
I love the Canadiens, the french ones in special, from Quebec, they are very good friends...also the English ones are kind...but i have better relations with the french ones
Also the Australians are wonderfull guys...i have many friends from Australia...somewhere i can go without feel lonely.[
regards,
Carlos
The pleasure is to myself, thank you, you are very kind.
J'aime les Canadiens, les françaises, Du Quebec ce sont bonnes amis.
Aussi je aime les Austrelienes.... aussi trés bonne personnes.
au revoìr.
I love the Canadiens, the french ones in special, from Quebec, they are very good friends...also the English ones are kind...but i have better relations with the french ones
Also the Australians are wonderfull guys...i have many friends from Australia...somewhere i can go without feel lonely.[
regards,
Carlos
Yes, and despite their fame...the idea is nice, and those boose cheap speakers sounds
Very interesting, considering their size.
U.S. people call them BOZO, thinking about some Clown.
But if think they are too much severe.... the small units are really pretty, and reproduce nice sound.
If they use multi channels...well, this i do not know.
thank you Dimitris....you are always welcome.
regards,
Carlos
Very interesting, considering their size.
U.S. people call them BOZO, thinking about some Clown.
But if think they are too much severe.... the small units are really pretty, and reproduce nice sound.
If they use multi channels...well, this i do not know.
thank you Dimitris....you are always welcome.
regards,
Carlos
Hi destroyer X,
I must be priveleged to have a wife that LOVES big speakers with plenty bass GRUNT! And she's happy for them to take pride of place in our living room.
I designed a simple commercial PA 2/3 way active crossover back in 1975, using TL081's tunable by pots (12 dB/octave) with an 18 dB subsonic filter and level adjustments.
My computer's not recognizing the scanner on this session or I'd post it.
It was a huge seller back then for big band PA's /Theatres and Discos.
Cheers,
Greg
I must be priveleged to have a wife that LOVES big speakers with plenty bass GRUNT! And she's happy for them to take pride of place in our living room.
I designed a simple commercial PA 2/3 way active crossover back in 1975, using TL081's tunable by pots (12 dB/octave) with an 18 dB subsonic filter and level adjustments.
My computer's not recognizing the scanner on this session or I'd post it.
It was a huge seller back then for big band PA's /Theatres and Discos.
Cheers,
Greg
Hi destroyer X,
I think you are getting at actively crossed over multi amp systems directly driving each speaker. If that's it - yes! Vastly superiour to passive crossovers.
This is the only way high power systems work without killing the tweeters and mids. Sometimes DJ's think the peak lights are signal indicator lights !
-Chris
I think you are getting at actively crossed over multi amp systems directly driving each speaker. If that's it - yes! Vastly superiour to passive crossovers.
This is the only way high power systems work without killing the tweeters and mids. Sometimes DJ's think the peak lights are signal indicator lights !
-Chris
Hi mastertech,
Yes .... I ...... have. Musical Fidelity had trouble keeping their amps in one piece.
Multi amp systems with no active crossovers (properly designed) will KILL normal systems. No question. They can apply full damping on each driver while the phase angles are controlled. The high end audio version is expensive well beyond what normal earthlings can afford.
A passive crossover is an "it works - sort of" solution compared to the active version.
So, I have no idea what you classify as wide band. I don't know why you are stuck on class A either, but whatever makes you happy. I've heard most of what was out there, on most speaker systems. Most of the amps I've worked on amplify in the low RF region. You know, 200~400 KHz. That sounds like wide band to me.
-Chris
Yes .... I ...... have. Musical Fidelity had trouble keeping their amps in one piece.
Multi amp systems with no active crossovers (properly designed) will KILL normal systems. No question. They can apply full damping on each driver while the phase angles are controlled. The high end audio version is expensive well beyond what normal earthlings can afford.
A passive crossover is an "it works - sort of" solution compared to the active version.
So, I have no idea what you classify as wide band. I don't know why you are stuck on class A either, but whatever makes you happy. I've heard most of what was out there, on most speaker systems. Most of the amps I've worked on amplify in the low RF region. You know, 200~400 KHz. That sounds like wide band to me.
-Chris
mastertech said:Hi Anatech i know what you mean, have you ever listened a real
wideband class-a pwr amp driving a hq conventional spk system
no you havent!, if that was the case Musical fidelity would be making active spks not stereo pwr amps
cheers mate!
don't know about musical fidelty.
but Meridan do, maybe meridan don't hnow what they are doing?
allan
ps full range speaker?
large speaker for lows mids, compensate for highs
smaller speaker for mids and high, compensate for lows.
Should we design a 5 amplifiers or 6 amplifiers system?
2 + 2 mid-high
+ 1 subwoofer mono amp
or
3 + 3 low-mid-high
Before we decide active crossover freqencies, filter order(12/24 dB)
and filter type (Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley or Chebychev)
I think we should have a look at suitable tweeters and woofers.
Lets have a vote for what loudspeaker drivers our system should use!
From this we can go on to filters and amplifiers design.
2 + 2 mid-high
+ 1 subwoofer mono amp
or
3 + 3 low-mid-high
Before we decide active crossover freqencies, filter order(12/24 dB)
and filter type (Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley or Chebychev)
I think we should have a look at suitable tweeters and woofers.
Lets have a vote for what loudspeaker drivers our system should use!
From this we can go on to filters and amplifiers design.
Re: Le plaisir est pour mois...merci beaucoup, vout etes très gentille.
Salut à toi Carlos, je suis content de savoir que tu parle francais. J'ai appris à connaitre les Brésiliens et j'ai beaucoup de respect pour vous. I always think we are as hot blodded as you are. But I won't try to make a contest about that. HA HA I worked to build the Petronas P36 (petrol platform) here in Quebec who very sadly sank on the mexican golf a few years ago .....and by the way had to work with some brasilian folks. They are proud people and I think, they desrve to be proud. Hope to meet you some day. Who knows what will happend in the future....destroyer X said:
Oh my . . .
When my wife is in state of love with me, my speaker size, colour and shape do not matter much.
Or, vice versa.
I managed building of my big J-Low speakers after spending lots of love with my wife . . . phew . . . I should make my wife too busy to see my diy amps, interconnect and speaker cables . . . phew . . .
Regards
jh
When my wife is in state of love with me, my speaker size, colour and shape do not matter much.
Or, vice versa.
I managed building of my big J-Low speakers after spending lots of love with my wife . . . phew . . . I should make my wife too busy to see my diy amps, interconnect and speaker cables . . . phew . . .
Regards
jh
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