Hi Gabdx1,
There are many makes that are very good, but more that are not. Using your common sense is the best thing to do.
May I give you a hint for stereo shopping?
Listen to a system in mono, one channel and one speaker only. If you like what you hear, it will sound better, but sometimes stereo effects can be used to sell an iffy system.
Also, we can measure most things these days. The published specs don't tell the entire story, but stay away from designers who do not use good testing procedures. I can tell you with certainty that "Designing by ear" does not work well. All good designers listen to the product before finalizing it.
-Chris
There are many makes that are very good, but more that are not. Using your common sense is the best thing to do.
May I give you a hint for stereo shopping?
Listen to a system in mono, one channel and one speaker only. If you like what you hear, it will sound better, but sometimes stereo effects can be used to sell an iffy system.
Also, we can measure most things these days. The published specs don't tell the entire story, but stay away from designers who do not use good testing procedures. I can tell you with certainty that "Designing by ear" does not work well. All good designers listen to the product before finalizing it.
-Chris
Everyone should agree with you: many products are all very good but different when you reach a certain sound/quality,
For some reason 'more' audio products doesn’t sound right at all, and there I could be nasty and name products that reach in 10k.
This mono thing is very good to do: my system sound splendid in mono as well as stereo.
I notice that when there is a drum or things producing slapping sound my speakers sound like they are going to explode, iow they sound live: that’s what you can look for.
Also be able to know the microphone emplacement and how many microphones where used is a good sign. Not only the musicians should be clearly positioned in front of you but also you should be able to tell where you are in the room. (For most good recordings).
For some reason 'more' audio products doesn’t sound right at all, and there I could be nasty and name products that reach in 10k.
This mono thing is very good to do: my system sound splendid in mono as well as stereo.
I notice that when there is a drum or things producing slapping sound my speakers sound like they are going to explode, iow they sound live: that’s what you can look for.
Also be able to know the microphone emplacement and how many microphones where used is a good sign. Not only the musicians should be clearly positioned in front of you but also you should be able to tell where you are in the room. (For most good recordings).
OK... i TRIED reading this entire thread, but it's made my brain tired... too much technical talk, not enough plain english reviewing and few comparisons to other amp designs, so i
m just going to skip to the end and ask for comparisons directly.
in theory, it sounds like the SKA is about as good as one can get for a resonable amount of money. i've been looking into class D as i have a panasonic SA-XR 55 and previously, a sonic impact that i loved the sound of that's a bit too clinical maybe now with resolving aluminum dowmes, and have been looking for what i'd call a more "liquid" sound, not obscured and romantic like i associate with tubes, but just more ease and realism. again, the SKA seems to score very high there in all of the reviews i read in a huge post on audiocircle last night i think, and re-reading a couple of them here.
for a minute, i wasreally interested in ganclones based on the reviews of the original gaincard, but one got KOed early in a class D shootout with the dirt cheap trends making it all the way to the final round in a shootout that my beloved SA-XR 55 only made one or two KOes in itself, so in theory that sounds better. then along comes the kingrex which is supposed to be even more pleasing to the rear and in researching THAT, i see a mention that the SKA is even better still, but have seen such "try to find better upgrades" searches turn into running in circles where one reviewer will favor some component, and then another favors something else in comparisons with a third component.
to me, the SKA looks like it's another chip amp as the parts count is so low making me woonder if it sounds like a gainclone which is nice, but supposedly surpassed by better class D designs.
can anyone compare the SKA to gainclones or any class D or even tube gear? i was also looking into cheap tube amps, and there some design named for being cheap i could find absolutely no actual reviews for was tossed in the mix. i'm not looking for the absolute last word in amplifier perfection, but would like something at least sarisfying enough that i could live with it without feeling the need to upgrade.
i loved the sound of my panasonic back when i had NHT superzero speakers with "polite" soft domes that sounded muffled on NAD or with lessresolution and slight grain on onkyo, but with aluminum dowmes, i'm getting something like a very resolved, but clinical sound i'd like to ease a little and have been planning on upgrading from my receiver's DAC i like better than sony to a schiit gungnir.
could anyone offer some direct comparisons to anything besides the rival ASKA (or whatever) and that 55 whatever? a detailed amp with plenty of bass slam (i have little 5 1/2" energy RC-10 2 ways) that ALSO sounds relaxed and natural sounds like where i want to go. i'm not liking the "warmer and more forgiving, musical even" sound of my tired old sony DAC over the tighter and faster sound of my panasonic, so i don't think i want to strain too far from "revealing & neutral" but maybe take one small step towards the middle.
i'm not a techie, so any discussion of rectifier resonances in the flux capacitor re-routed through the secondary plasma conduit will only make my eyes glaze over and i'm leaning towards having an SKA built if i go that route on my upgrade path, i just need to hear some comparisons to gear other than the two other amps that are being talked about in an isolated bubble.
i'd like a "giant killing amp" in the $500 or less range and would consider hotrodding an SKA with better caps etc. and adding a stepped attenuator direct from my DAC.
oh yeah... while i'm here, is there any drawback to running two different amps into one pair of speakers eg. the SKA for digital audio, and mt receiver for video? (not biamping). if two amps can be connected to the same speaker for biamping, then i don't see why two couldn't be with switching between them.
OH... on second thought, i don't think i'll be getting an SKA any time soon as it's closer to $1,000 than the $200 or so i thought reading a description that dropped an 8 from $880 australian. it looks like i'm back to deciding between a $400 kingrex with power supply, or a cheaper trends unit as i don't have a thousand in pocket change at the moment.
m just going to skip to the end and ask for comparisons directly.
in theory, it sounds like the SKA is about as good as one can get for a resonable amount of money. i've been looking into class D as i have a panasonic SA-XR 55 and previously, a sonic impact that i loved the sound of that's a bit too clinical maybe now with resolving aluminum dowmes, and have been looking for what i'd call a more "liquid" sound, not obscured and romantic like i associate with tubes, but just more ease and realism. again, the SKA seems to score very high there in all of the reviews i read in a huge post on audiocircle last night i think, and re-reading a couple of them here.
for a minute, i wasreally interested in ganclones based on the reviews of the original gaincard, but one got KOed early in a class D shootout with the dirt cheap trends making it all the way to the final round in a shootout that my beloved SA-XR 55 only made one or two KOes in itself, so in theory that sounds better. then along comes the kingrex which is supposed to be even more pleasing to the rear and in researching THAT, i see a mention that the SKA is even better still, but have seen such "try to find better upgrades" searches turn into running in circles where one reviewer will favor some component, and then another favors something else in comparisons with a third component.
to me, the SKA looks like it's another chip amp as the parts count is so low making me woonder if it sounds like a gainclone which is nice, but supposedly surpassed by better class D designs.
can anyone compare the SKA to gainclones or any class D or even tube gear? i was also looking into cheap tube amps, and there some design named for being cheap i could find absolutely no actual reviews for was tossed in the mix. i'm not looking for the absolute last word in amplifier perfection, but would like something at least sarisfying enough that i could live with it without feeling the need to upgrade.
i loved the sound of my panasonic back when i had NHT superzero speakers with "polite" soft domes that sounded muffled on NAD or with lessresolution and slight grain on onkyo, but with aluminum dowmes, i'm getting something like a very resolved, but clinical sound i'd like to ease a little and have been planning on upgrading from my receiver's DAC i like better than sony to a schiit gungnir.
could anyone offer some direct comparisons to anything besides the rival ASKA (or whatever) and that 55 whatever? a detailed amp with plenty of bass slam (i have little 5 1/2" energy RC-10 2 ways) that ALSO sounds relaxed and natural sounds like where i want to go. i'm not liking the "warmer and more forgiving, musical even" sound of my tired old sony DAC over the tighter and faster sound of my panasonic, so i don't think i want to strain too far from "revealing & neutral" but maybe take one small step towards the middle.
i'm not a techie, so any discussion of rectifier resonances in the flux capacitor re-routed through the secondary plasma conduit will only make my eyes glaze over and i'm leaning towards having an SKA built if i go that route on my upgrade path, i just need to hear some comparisons to gear other than the two other amps that are being talked about in an isolated bubble.
i'd like a "giant killing amp" in the $500 or less range and would consider hotrodding an SKA with better caps etc. and adding a stepped attenuator direct from my DAC.
oh yeah... while i'm here, is there any drawback to running two different amps into one pair of speakers eg. the SKA for digital audio, and mt receiver for video? (not biamping). if two amps can be connected to the same speaker for biamping, then i don't see why two couldn't be with switching between them.
OH... on second thought, i don't think i'll be getting an SKA any time soon as it's closer to $1,000 than the $200 or so i thought reading a description that dropped an 8 from $880 australian. it looks like i'm back to deciding between a $400 kingrex with power supply, or a cheaper trends unit as i don't have a thousand in pocket change at the moment.
Last edited:
probably going to build
Hey all,
I know this is an old post, but I'm probably going to build the gb300 to replace my carver m-1.5t. Seems that no matter what I do, I can't get rid of the turn off thumps.
The Ska amp seems to be the ticket I've been looking for my first homebuilt.
are there any new impressions on this amp? Would anyone suggest duel transformers? What psu^s would you suggest, soft start, speaker protection?
I plan on putting this in a long 3u dissipate chassis from the diy store, so it should all fit.also I'll be driving boss 901 vi^s pretty easy to drive so I shouldn't have any problems there. Any suggestions would be very helpfull.
Thanks all, mark H.
Hey all,
I know this is an old post, but I'm probably going to build the gb300 to replace my carver m-1.5t. Seems that no matter what I do, I can't get rid of the turn off thumps.
The Ska amp seems to be the ticket I've been looking for my first homebuilt.
are there any new impressions on this amp? Would anyone suggest duel transformers? What psu^s would you suggest, soft start, speaker protection?
I plan on putting this in a long 3u dissipate chassis from the diy store, so it should all fit.also I'll be driving boss 901 vi^s pretty easy to drive so I shouldn't have any problems there. Any suggestions would be very helpfull.
Thanks all, mark H.
Hi Mark,
What kind of turnoff thumps are you getting firstly, and have you discussed your Carver in a thread here?
Be aware that the raw power from that Carver amplifier will be next to impossible to replace with any DIY amplifier. If you don't use a relay to disconnect the speakers, you are probably going to get a lot of noise with any amplifier, especially if the thump is coming from a component upstream, like a preamplifier or electronic crossover.
Be aware that these Carver amplifiers can be made to sound a great deal better, and that there are some parts that are affected by heat and high voltage. Your supplies are 240 volts (+/- 120 VDC), and that is enormous power. Have you replaced the dual capacitors in that unit? There was a factory designed replacement that fit in there exactly. Finally, do you have a picture showing the power supply area in that amplifier. I don't think you should be getting rid of that amp.
Best, Chris
What kind of turnoff thumps are you getting firstly, and have you discussed your Carver in a thread here?
Be aware that the raw power from that Carver amplifier will be next to impossible to replace with any DIY amplifier. If you don't use a relay to disconnect the speakers, you are probably going to get a lot of noise with any amplifier, especially if the thump is coming from a component upstream, like a preamplifier or electronic crossover.
Be aware that these Carver amplifiers can be made to sound a great deal better, and that there are some parts that are affected by heat and high voltage. Your supplies are 240 volts (+/- 120 VDC), and that is enormous power. Have you replaced the dual capacitors in that unit? There was a factory designed replacement that fit in there exactly. Finally, do you have a picture showing the power supply area in that amplifier. I don't think you should be getting rid of that amp.
Best, Chris
here's the deal
Thanks for such a quick reply,
it all started out from a burnt out power switch on my c-1 pre-amp. After searching all over the net for a part# I came across a site that specializes in carver equip. (I won't mention their name) they suggested that since I have my c-1 apart to go ahead and recap it and while I'm at it do the amp as well. So I bought the C&C 4 cap replacement set, installed it and it's been nothing but downhill from there. Come to find out, 1 of those new caps was shorted and the rest is history. I wasn't happy. Then a wise guy trolled me on the site and I left forever.
After a major meltdown of my most precious amp, I started over. I stripped down the 1 amp card that wasn't completely fried, made 6 copies of it. Made a few copies of the power card. Then looked at the schematics and said OMG who wrote these POS all hand written and nothing matched my amp. So using my closeup detailed photos I took of the cards before I disassembled them I got on my cad and rewrote them along with a BOM.
restuffed everything new components including all dale resistors, orange drops, wima, and nichicon all new on-simi, 10 and 12ga. Shielded wire ferrite where it would fit. And wow it sounded good for about 3 days.
now the thumps back, put it back on the bench wound it up with my variac started to check the rail voltage and SMOKE AND BURN. Q13, Q20, R24, and R55 burned-out. Replaced all of those fired it up and after about 10 min they burned-out again. Pulled that board out grabbed a new one, restuffed it with all new components and It fried the same components again. Now I figured it was somewhere in the power supply so I pulled out another one of those,stuffed and reinstalled. Again burned out the same parts. Switched the left and right channel positions still burned out the same board.
Now all of these PCBs are exactly the same with the same components, no bridges where they shouldn't be and are where they should. All my voltages are perfect and I've spent about 6months of my time and about a grand on somthing that cost me $850 back in 1984
So basically I'm done with this carver, I would love for it to work again and it was the best sounding amp I ever heard by far. But now I'm to the point that just want to hear "Run Like Hell" from Pink Floyd just one more time before I die LOL.
So this is why I'm looking to build the best amp I can without having to one of these off the shelf class D amps that I can't even listen to be for I buy.
I bet I'd listened 100 different amps on 1000 different speakers even owned a whole lot of them before I bought the carver because nothing came close.
Thanks for such a quick reply,
it all started out from a burnt out power switch on my c-1 pre-amp. After searching all over the net for a part# I came across a site that specializes in carver equip. (I won't mention their name) they suggested that since I have my c-1 apart to go ahead and recap it and while I'm at it do the amp as well. So I bought the C&C 4 cap replacement set, installed it and it's been nothing but downhill from there. Come to find out, 1 of those new caps was shorted and the rest is history. I wasn't happy. Then a wise guy trolled me on the site and I left forever.
After a major meltdown of my most precious amp, I started over. I stripped down the 1 amp card that wasn't completely fried, made 6 copies of it. Made a few copies of the power card. Then looked at the schematics and said OMG who wrote these POS all hand written and nothing matched my amp. So using my closeup detailed photos I took of the cards before I disassembled them I got on my cad and rewrote them along with a BOM.
restuffed everything new components including all dale resistors, orange drops, wima, and nichicon all new on-simi, 10 and 12ga. Shielded wire ferrite where it would fit. And wow it sounded good for about 3 days.
now the thumps back, put it back on the bench wound it up with my variac started to check the rail voltage and SMOKE AND BURN. Q13, Q20, R24, and R55 burned-out. Replaced all of those fired it up and after about 10 min they burned-out again. Pulled that board out grabbed a new one, restuffed it with all new components and It fried the same components again. Now I figured it was somewhere in the power supply so I pulled out another one of those,stuffed and reinstalled. Again burned out the same parts. Switched the left and right channel positions still burned out the same board.
Now all of these PCBs are exactly the same with the same components, no bridges where they shouldn't be and are where they should. All my voltages are perfect and I've spent about 6months of my time and about a grand on somthing that cost me $850 back in 1984
So basically I'm done with this carver, I would love for it to work again and it was the best sounding amp I ever heard by far. But now I'm to the point that just want to hear "Run Like Hell" from Pink Floyd just one more time before I die LOL.
So this is why I'm looking to build the best amp I can without having to one of these off the shelf class D amps that I can't even listen to be for I buy.
I bet I'd listened 100 different amps on 1000 different speakers even owned a whole lot of them before I bought the carver because nothing came close.
Hi hambone,
Where are you located? I am pretty familiar with these amplifiers, and some things may not be immediately obvious. For instance, you can't sub the op amps the way it is. I probably could have properly repaired the first one for you. You just got involved with possible hack service (no shortage of those folks out there). Especially ones who claim to be Carver "experts".
Now, you can't use a variac to bring those amplifiers up. Not in the normal way at least. I use a modified way to bring them up for troubleshooting. The most difficult time I have with them is cleaning up after a hack artist. Those guys should be lined up and shot as far as I'm concerned. Carver product isn't the only thing they hack.
Has the amplifier you bought been properly serviced, or is it all original (I hope). I wouldn't expect it to work properly without a good service. But, most of it does not need part improvements. There are a few key components you can change for improved performance, but this is rather specific as to what you change those parts to.
Accept that these amplifiers work a little differently and they are fairly different even past the power supply. Also, set the high supply rails to about 118 VDC, avoid running it up to 122 or 125 VDC as they can drift upwards from there. Bad things happen if the supplies go too high.
Many parts in the power supply suffer high voltage type wear as well as heat wear. It's a little different than what you will most often see in most consumer power amplifiers.
-Chris
Where are you located? I am pretty familiar with these amplifiers, and some things may not be immediately obvious. For instance, you can't sub the op amps the way it is. I probably could have properly repaired the first one for you. You just got involved with possible hack service (no shortage of those folks out there). Especially ones who claim to be Carver "experts".
Now, you can't use a variac to bring those amplifiers up. Not in the normal way at least. I use a modified way to bring them up for troubleshooting. The most difficult time I have with them is cleaning up after a hack artist. Those guys should be lined up and shot as far as I'm concerned. Carver product isn't the only thing they hack.
Has the amplifier you bought been properly serviced, or is it all original (I hope). I wouldn't expect it to work properly without a good service. But, most of it does not need part improvements. There are a few key components you can change for improved performance, but this is rather specific as to what you change those parts to.
Accept that these amplifiers work a little differently and they are fairly different even past the power supply. Also, set the high supply rails to about 118 VDC, avoid running it up to 122 or 125 VDC as they can drift upwards from there. Bad things happen if the supplies go too high.
Many parts in the power supply suffer high voltage type wear as well as heat wear. It's a little different than what you will most often see in most consumer power amplifiers.
-Chris
Hey chris,
the one I just bought looks to have never been opened. He bought his in England about the same time I bought mine in England as well hence the close s/n# he just said he hasn't used it in 20 years. Mine is now a hairy mess to put it lightly.
I know what you mean about the supply rails when I get it set to 122. Then start setting the bias it will hold 4mv for about 20 seconds then shoots way up and burns those trannys and resistors.
So what's the problem with changing out opamps? I was able to find the ti-tlo81 is that the problem I've been having all this time?
Anyway when this next one comes in I could sure use some GOOD advice on getting it up and running as best as it can.
thanks, Mark H
oh! By the way I'm in North Carolina
the one I just bought looks to have never been opened. He bought his in England about the same time I bought mine in England as well hence the close s/n# he just said he hasn't used it in 20 years. Mine is now a hairy mess to put it lightly.
I know what you mean about the supply rails when I get it set to 122. Then start setting the bias it will hold 4mv for about 20 seconds then shoots way up and burns those trannys and resistors.
So what's the problem with changing out opamps? I was able to find the ti-tlo81 is that the problem I've been having all this time?
Anyway when this next one comes in I could sure use some GOOD advice on getting it up and running as best as it can.
thanks, Mark H
oh! By the way I'm in North Carolina
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.