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Old 24th July 2003, 10:35 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by thylantyr
Do you see what I mean?

Of course they do. They are just too busy listening to their resistors than to make $10K while listeing to their resistors.

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Old 24th July 2003, 03:41 PM   #42
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Default Easy money? Hardly....

Has anyone acutally bothered to calculate the implicit statistics in this RC challenge?

Mr. Clark's experiment is not whether one can, with statistical validity, identify these 2 amps, but whether they can consistently do so with 90+% accuracy. Given the the vaugaries of controlled testing, fatuige.... participating is indeed a fool's errand.

Similarly, 'GoldenEars' who claims they can, under those controlled conditions, identify those arbitrary amps with 100% (or 90%) accuracy are deluded.....

All of which has little to do with whether there are subjective differences that can be 'proven' with a statistically valid test.
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Old 24th July 2003, 03:49 PM   #43
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Default Re: Easy money? Hardly....

Quote:
Originally posted by pmkap
Has anyone acutally bothered to calculate the implicit statistics in this RC challenge?

here is my calculation: if you are 94% accurate (either way) on a single shot, you have a 50% chance of winning the chanllege after 12 trails.

to achieve a 90% chance, you have to be 99% right on each test.

Quote:
Originally posted by pmkap
Similarly, 'GoldenEars' who claims they can, under those controlled conditions, identify those arbitrary amps with 100% (or 90%) accuracy are deluded.....

first of all, you are allowed to bring your own amps, own music, etc. so it is not "arbitry" amps.

2ndly, you can substantially improve your odds by betting where you are allowed to make mistakes and still win.

You want to take that route instead? it looks much easier than winning the lottery,
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Old 24th July 2003, 05:53 PM   #44
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Default Re: Re: Easy money? Hardly....

Quote:
Originally posted by millwood

.....
first of all, you are allowed to bring your own amps, own music, etc. so it is not "arbitry" amps.

2ndly, you can substantially improve your odds by betting where you are allowed to make mistakes and still win.

You want to take that route instead? it looks much easier than winning the lottery,
I don't play the lottery, and I don't engage in no-win bets.

I don't think we are in disagreement here... Indeed, with a requirement of 2 ,or more, 100% correct on 12, the even odds for 6 sets calls for about 91% accuracy. Something I consider unobtainable, but having nothing to do with whether one can statistically verify the validity of subjective listening differentiation.
Those 'GodenEars' who would claim a 90%+ accuracy are (IMO) foolish, as is anyone who enter into RC's Challenge.

This does not even the address the issue of the Challenge's requirement for both amps running off the same DC power supply. (I realize the Challenge is aimed toward car amps.) I don't know of any stationary amps that don't come with their own power supply. One can certainly make the point that the ps is a large determinant of an amp's 'personality', which is discussed on many different threads here.
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Old 24th July 2003, 06:03 PM   #45
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Default Re: Re: Re: Easy money? Hardly....

Quote:
Originally posted by pmkap
Those 'GodenEars' who would claim a 90%+ accuracy are (IMO) foolish, as is anyone who enter into RC's Challenge.
I think the exact words are "XX sounds positively grey and dynamically challenged". I don't know why such a goldenear wouldn't not take the chanllenge.

Quote:
Originally posted by pmkap
This does not even the address the issue of the Challenge's requirement for both amps running off the same DC power supply.

I don't know the details but I remember him allowing you to provide your own amp. so maybe you should email him to see if he would relax that for you.
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Old 24th July 2003, 06:11 PM   #46
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i've seen the light!!!!

all amps sound the same!!!

i'm selling all my equipment on the Trading Post!!!
(at good prices)

Thank you so much, i can go cut the lawn now!!!!!
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Old 24th July 2003, 08:00 PM   #47
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I don't play the lottery, and I don't engage in no-win bets.

There is no betting. You don't lose
anything.

It's a challenge, if you win, you
get $10,000.

If you lose, nothing comes out of
your pocket, you go home with
a broken ego.

all amps sound the same

Originally this is what I thought the
claims were, but really it is not
the claim. The claim is that amplfiiers
operating at the same power levels
cleanly with similar specifications
regardless of class or topology can be
setup so the user can't distinguish between the two on a consistent basis.

If amplifiers have a sonic magic inside
due to topologies, then a person
should be able to identify this much
like a person is able to identify
an apple from an orange 100% of
the time when grocery shopping.

/hehehehe
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Old 24th July 2003, 08:17 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by moe29
all amps sound the same!!!

exactly. My $10 Sony boombox will sound just as nice as your high-priced gears and better if you drop in the right resistors,
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Old 24th July 2003, 08:20 PM   #49
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I thought you just said today, that your Pioneer is the best, hands down. You were talking about the sound?

Quote:
Originally posted by millwood


I also have a 1970s Pioneer (just acquired BTW), a 1980s Marantz, an early 1990s Kenwood, a late 1990s Sony (there is a mid 1990s Sony but it is collecting dust) and a new Parasound. The Pioneer is hands down the best, and the Sony the worst.

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Old 24th July 2003, 08:28 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel
I thought you just said today, that your Pioneer is the best, hands down. You were talking about the sound?


yeah. But my Sony boombox with the right resistors will beat out any hi-fi out there,
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