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Old 24th July 2003, 02:27 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by thylantyr
If you really want to stir the chicken
coop say..

"I can hear the difference between
16 bit DACs and 24 bit".

no. that's not going to do it.

Instead, "many people at DIY audio can hear 300K resistors from 250K resistors consistently and statistically significantly".

or LM317 sounds positively grey and dynamically challenged.

I wonder who is really challenged now,
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Old 24th July 2003, 02:29 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
I'll be surprised if someone hasn't tried already. Clearly, they didn't win.

Darn it.

I didn't realize that golden ears in DIY audio are so rich. $10K of "easy money" like this isn't enough to entice them to take the challenge.

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Old 24th July 2003, 03:38 AM   #33
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... funny how the moderators cut/paste
our discussion from another thread
and place it here -- an old thread.

I feel scammed again
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Old 24th July 2003, 03:42 AM   #34
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There is nothing funny about it. The other thread was about preamp's PS, this one IS about the Challenge. So knock yourself off in here
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Old 24th July 2003, 04:03 AM   #35
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The only thing I've heard from online correspondents is, if you try to take the challege, Mr. Clark starts piling on conditions and exceptions to the point where it isn't worth the hassle. So he's just a blow-hard.

Anyway, I don't need some stupid challenge to know what I know. My best friend and I play games trying to tell sonic differences. We've been able to statistically show our own preferences for different speaker wires, DACs, and so forth. If I can differentiate between two speakers wires, I know damn well I can differentiate between amplifier topologies. I mean, plug your headphones into an iPod and compare with an X-Can. Can't tell the difference? Must be deaf.

-jwb
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Old 24th July 2003, 04:57 AM   #36
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The other thread was about preamp
power supplies, but people are
posting about sonic performance of
various regulators...

Taking this one step further....

If people can identify component
or circuit design sonic signatures,
then these same people would
be able to take the RC challenge
by identifying two amplifiers to collect
an easy $10,000....

The reality is.. nobody has passed the
test.. comparing car amplifier designs
which use the "bad stuff" like op-amps
and linear regulators to home
amplifiers with have none of these -
pure gain blocks..

The topic was relevant to the pre-amp
thread to make a point.

If you can distinguish audibility of
components and circuit designs,
identifying two amplifiers should
be easy by taking the RC challenge.

Do you see what I mean?
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Old 24th July 2003, 04:58 AM   #37
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sounds like you're || this close to 10k bucks then. that'd be worth a little 'hassle', i think.

or not, maybe. whatever.
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Old 24th July 2003, 05:02 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by jwb
The only thing I've heard from online correspondents is, if you try to take the challege, Mr. Clark starts piling on conditions and exceptions to the point where it isn't worth the hassle. So he's just a blow-hard.

Anyway, I don't need some stupid challenge to know what I know. My best friend and I play games trying to tell sonic differences. We've been able to statistically show our own preferences for different speaker wires, DACs, and so forth. If I can differentiate between two speakers wires, I know damn well I can differentiate between amplifier topologies. I mean, plug your headphones into an iPod and compare with an X-Can. Can't tell the difference? Must be deaf.

-jwb

The test proves one thing. If you zero
out two amplifiers operating under
the same conditions, it's inaudible.

Remove those two amplifiers from
the test condition and use them
differently and you can distiguish..
due to noise levels, power levels,
clipping, load used, etc.

If you think about it, it's pretty funny -
the ability to setup two amplifiers
to sound the same.

The challenge is to prove that
gain stages have no audible sonic
signature.
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Old 24th July 2003, 10:10 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by jwb
Anyway, I don't need some stupid challenge to know what I know.

I have heard the same thing from snake oil salesmen. Want some of that too?

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Old 24th July 2003, 10:33 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by jag
Very interesting...

This guy has collected several statements made by RC and put them in one place.

that's an interesting thread to read, to say the least.

the chanllege is at least 3-years standing, and no one known winner? Wow.

How many of those golden ears chose to bet instead? or how many of them have the guts to take on the challenge?

It seems that he had some "chanllengers" - he talked about equalizing SS amps to sound like tubes.

It is pretty telling, in my view, that after all those years, we haven't heard of ONE winner.
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