Hello Everyone,
Me again with another thought.
I haven't been on the forum for a month or 2 due to spending time learning how to build Yagi antennas so I can pickup Digital TV and the off the rack TV antennas weren't up to scratch.
It took me 2 months but I now have Digital TV reception!
This brings me to my question?
Has anyone wired up their Amplifier inputs with Coaxial cable instead of the normal Audio shielded cable most of us use.
I asked this as While working on my antenna it wasn't hard to notice that this Coaxial has a 1 to 2 mm solid core wire and is shielded by 2 or more layers of wire and aluminum which might add some benefit to shielding the input of an Amplifier over the normal Audio cable used.
What do you think??
Me again with another thought.
I haven't been on the forum for a month or 2 due to spending time learning how to build Yagi antennas so I can pickup Digital TV and the off the rack TV antennas weren't up to scratch.
It took me 2 months but I now have Digital TV reception!
This brings me to my question?
Has anyone wired up their Amplifier inputs with Coaxial cable instead of the normal Audio shielded cable most of us use.
I asked this as While working on my antenna it wasn't hard to notice that this Coaxial has a 1 to 2 mm solid core wire and is shielded by 2 or more layers of wire and aluminum which might add some benefit to shielding the input of an Amplifier over the normal Audio cable used.
What do you think??
Coaxial cable is a very generic name. There are so many types available.
If you are talking about coax used for RF and cable TV you have to be quite careful. You get copper braided shield , aluminum braided shield , foil shield , foil and braid shield etc.
They also come in different grades of braiding depending on how much protection the cable requires. Additionally the core can be pure single copper , or copper coated wire , stranded copper etc.
However if you are using a high level signal source ( 1 volt or more) then maybe you can get away without any shield if cable lengths are not long. I use a Cat5e cable about 1.5 meters long with no hum problems and sounds far better than any coax I have. My cable is the standard gray one ( outer covering ) with teflon insulation on the inner wires and not the fire resistant purple coloured one which I believe does not use Teflon insulation (?).
Someone will have to answer your question of how coaxial cable sounds .....as compared to what ? We will also need to know the cable type that was used !
Cheers.
If you are talking about coax used for RF and cable TV you have to be quite careful. You get copper braided shield , aluminum braided shield , foil shield , foil and braid shield etc.
They also come in different grades of braiding depending on how much protection the cable requires. Additionally the core can be pure single copper , or copper coated wire , stranded copper etc.
However if you are using a high level signal source ( 1 volt or more) then maybe you can get away without any shield if cable lengths are not long. I use a Cat5e cable about 1.5 meters long with no hum problems and sounds far better than any coax I have. My cable is the standard gray one ( outer covering ) with teflon insulation on the inner wires and not the fire resistant purple coloured one which I believe does not use Teflon insulation (?).
Someone will have to answer your question of how coaxial cable sounds .....as compared to what ? We will also need to know the cable type that was used !
Cheers.
Never used RG59.
In the 80s a German audio magazine experimented with a whole range of industrial cables for audio purposes, the RG59 was not recommended.
RG59 has blank copper core and shield, the solid core makes it unpractical.
First one i tried was RG58, which has a stranded core, both core and shield are tinned.
Later tried RG188 and RG196, both with silver layered core and shield, both with full PTFE isolation.
RG188 diameter is 2.7mm, 1.9mm for the RG196, in contrast to RG58 that does 5mm and 6.15mm for RG59.
A nice cheap one with solid core is the 5.3mm RG223, double shielded and silver layered.
I've been using 11mm diameter RG214 coaxial cable as interlinks between preamp and power amplifiers for ages.
Silver layered, a super cable, only trouble is finding the right kind of connector, the diameter and weight of the cable requires a 90 degree angle connector.
Sidenote: turned out that one of the cables tested in germany was identical to a VDHull bestseller, A.J. undoubtebly ordered the stuff relabelled from Berkenhoff & Drebes.
In the 80s a German audio magazine experimented with a whole range of industrial cables for audio purposes, the RG59 was not recommended.
RG59 has blank copper core and shield, the solid core makes it unpractical.
First one i tried was RG58, which has a stranded core, both core and shield are tinned.
Later tried RG188 and RG196, both with silver layered core and shield, both with full PTFE isolation.
RG188 diameter is 2.7mm, 1.9mm for the RG196, in contrast to RG58 that does 5mm and 6.15mm for RG59.
A nice cheap one with solid core is the 5.3mm RG223, double shielded and silver layered.
I've been using 11mm diameter RG214 coaxial cable as interlinks between preamp and power amplifiers for ages.
Silver layered, a super cable, only trouble is finding the right kind of connector, the diameter and weight of the cable requires a 90 degree angle connector.
Sidenote: turned out that one of the cables tested in germany was identical to a VDHull bestseller, A.J. undoubtebly ordered the stuff relabelled from Berkenhoff & Drebes.
I will probably be flacked right off this thread, the site and probably the planet for my views about cable. Of all the quasi logical to pure illogical hype in hi-fi, I have never found anything to de-throne cable hype. This is not an arrogant or derogatory remark; it is just that so many blind tests have consistently shown that folks swearing to be able to detect distinct differences, suddenly lost that ability in such tests. Also, scientific arguments are lacking totally - measurements will easily show that any half-decent co-ax or screened cable will have no effect whatever in the audio spectrum (in domestic applications), either through capacitance, inductance or resistance - yet improvement in those parameters is regularly quoted to try indicate a particular brand's superiority.
Having said that, I also believe the main (and only) problem with RG59 might be lack of flexibility because of the solid core - I have never tried it. I have found the ubiquitous RG58 excellent and used that, mainly because pieces were available - I must have gone through 100s of meters at work. As said, most other half-decent screened wire should do the job, though.
Having said that, I also believe the main (and only) problem with RG59 might be lack of flexibility because of the solid core - I have never tried it. I have found the ubiquitous RG58 excellent and used that, mainly because pieces were available - I must have gone through 100s of meters at work. As said, most other half-decent screened wire should do the job, though.
Hello Everyone,
So it looks like Coaxial Cable is being used in Audio.
The Main reason I thought of using it was to shield my Amplifier from RF Noise etc etc.
I hadn't thought about if 1 coaxial cable sounded better than another.
So please keep your thoughts on which one to you sounds best.
Thank you all for the replies.
So it looks like Coaxial Cable is being used in Audio.
The Main reason I thought of using it was to shield my Amplifier from RF Noise etc etc.
I hadn't thought about if 1 coaxial cable sounded better than another.
So please keep your thoughts on which one to you sounds best.
Thank you all for the replies.
I am using 50ohm coax for audio cables for years, it's really superior quality cable for nearly no price (massive copper shielding, low permitivity plastic (PE) for insulation, thus VERY low capacity). I am talking about that black one, commonly used for bnc 1Mbit networks... The only disadvantage is relatively low flexibility, if compared with pro mic cables, but, honestly, who needs it?
Try Belden #9221 sometime. It's 2.46 mm OD and very flexible. Listed as a 75 ohm video cable with 89% copper shield coverage. 17.3 pF / ft. 0.7dB attenuation at 1MHz over 100' .
I used it for audio test leads and it's stood up extremely well in excess of 10 yrs. If you want something small and flexible (and tough) this might be the answer.
-Chris
I used it for audio test leads and it's stood up extremely well in excess of 10 yrs. If you want something small and flexible (and tough) this might be the answer.
-Chris
I used to read a paper for speaker cable measure whether it recommend coax cable. so i used to use RG6, feel it is quite ok.
for speakers, before you have matched low impedance cable, 50ohm is lowest one. CAT3/5 may be 90-120ohm,
although no shield is ok, when there is spark or so I think coax is better. normally, it is evenly built.
many expensive, low inductance speaker cable actually has higher capacitance, and effect is still depends.
for speakers, before you have matched low impedance cable, 50ohm is lowest one. CAT3/5 may be 90-120ohm,
although no shield is ok, when there is spark or so I think coax is better. normally, it is evenly built.
many expensive, low inductance speaker cable actually has higher capacitance, and effect is still depends.
Hi Chris,
The capacitance for 4m of RG58/U is about 400 pF, which was the highest I found in any normal cable. Do you mean that a C as low as that will upset some amplifiers, when loaded with a 8 ohm speaker? (I take it we are talking of domestic installations. Four meters may be a little short for some installations, still.)
Then I think it should be stated for the benefit of some possibly new to this game, that cable impedance is of no concern at audio frequencies in domestic applications. Cable impedance only starts influencing matters significantly for cables longer than say 1/8 wavelength. For 20 KHz that would mean a length of over 1 km.
The capacitance for 4m of RG58/U is about 400 pF, which was the highest I found in any normal cable. Do you mean that a C as low as that will upset some amplifiers, when loaded with a 8 ohm speaker? (I take it we are talking of domestic installations. Four meters may be a little short for some installations, still.)
Then I think it should be stated for the benefit of some possibly new to this game, that cable impedance is of no concern at audio frequencies in domestic applications. Cable impedance only starts influencing matters significantly for cables longer than say 1/8 wavelength. For 20 KHz that would mean a length of over 1 km.
Hi Johan,
I think there are some amps that this will upset, certainly not all. The one load amplifiers do not want to see is capacitive. This can upset the HF compensation.
For areas with a high RF field, I would use a pair in a shield. I use this often in large paging systems (70V line). 18 GA to 16 GA.
So we are not talking about losses in the audio band, but rather a marginal amplifiers tendancy to oscillate.
-Chris
I think there are some amps that this will upset, certainly not all. The one load amplifiers do not want to see is capacitive. This can upset the HF compensation.
For areas with a high RF field, I would use a pair in a shield. I use this often in large paging systems (70V line). 18 GA to 16 GA.
So we are not talking about losses in the audio band, but rather a marginal amplifiers tendancy to oscillate.
-Chris
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