Well, i found what i was searching for so long time...the old amplifier, 1968 . - diyAudio
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Old 10th September 2005, 08:14 PM   #1
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Default Well, i found what i was searching for so long time...the old amplifier, 1968 .

Well, i have wrote a long history...my life with this amplifier.

Unfortunatelly the damn Word program...have "eated it" without ketchup!

And i am too much frustrated to write it again.

This is an amplifier sold as a Kit, by Philips, year was 1968.

here is the schematic...enjoy it.

regards,

Carlos
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Old 10th September 2005, 08:16 PM   #2
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Default It used some Germanium transistors...this unit is more modern, say, 1970

Here is schematic image and details.

regards,

Carlos
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Old 10th September 2005, 08:17 PM   #3
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Default Increase input and output condensers...you will see that will sound nice.

Of course, cannot face our modern amplifiers...but.....but.... carefull with fast evaluations!

regards,

Carlos
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Old 10th September 2005, 08:19 PM   #4
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Default If i suggest you to do it...yes...and i will do too.

But this is for old guys...more than fifty years old.

The young guys must go to chip forum or produce modern discrete units.

But if an young wanted to he happy with us...join the club man!

João Pedro....era êsse que eu procurava meu amigo!

regards,

Carlos
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Old 10th September 2005, 09:06 PM   #5
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Carlos,

I remember building kits that looked similar to this one around 1975, but they were sold under the brand name Ibrape. Do you know if they were the same?
Considering the cost, the quality of the sound was quite good. I played them with speakers built using Novik plans. The very sweet sounding blue cones.

Ah, saudades!
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Old 10th September 2005, 10:02 PM   #6
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Hi mate,

Thanks for posting details of this amp. I am really interested in the history of amp design and especially like simple designs.

I do have a few questions though:

I gather this is powered by a 45-0VDC supply where "B" and "C" are at 0V? Thus the need for C7.

Does the earth connection of C2 also connect to "B" and "C"?

Are "C", "E" and "F" actually connected?

How come I recognise all the transistors in such an old design?

BTW: I just realised I should be able to answer of few of these questions myself by looking at your layout. Looking...looking...

thanks
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Old 11th September 2005, 05:33 AM   #7
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Default Oh Grimberg, do not talk about "saudades" to me, as i will start to cry...the age

I am living is a little bit challenging... daugthers are going out... to have their own family, the small babies are not more my little honey and i am feeling myself more and more lonely, as they are present with me, and for a while, but preparing to fly away to follow the nature.

This amplifier is exactly the one you remember... you found in Marechal Floriano street, covered with blue and black paper, plastified and shining finish... was wrote Ibrape M-150... we had the M-250.... was published a bridge unit (I have the circuit) to produce more power, using a phase inverter transistor, gain one, at the input, the phono pre amplifier and some others...oh!... 2.5 watts RMS using AC187 and AC188!!!...and one kit was using AD161 and AD162.....ahahaha!...good old days!..... the package was Isopor and i do not know this name in English, so, your cooperation with details will be welcome Grimberg.

The date was not 1975, but maybe they continued to be sold till this date....as i have them before University, and this happened 1970...well, this is not so important...the precise date...but happy to know they was alive so long in your memories.

I had it constructed by myself, not the kit...i could have the diagram, was inside a strong box made with Jacarandá...70 centimeters the side and 35 centimeters high...covered with a stone (marmore), a rose stone from Carrara, Italy...very heavy...the one was used in ancient time by Greeg and Romans.

The bottom was made with plywood.... bottom firing and having 2 inches blocks of wood to keep some distance from the floor.

My Copacabana appartment, those times Grimberg, had a lot of furnitures made with cloth.... a lot of absorbing material... 6 sofas and a thick carpet...long fiber one...wonderfull, really a carpet (tapête mesmo) and all that helped me a lot.

Inside this enclosure, two speakers, one was an Arlen, 15 inches and 20 watts only, the other one was one Pionner, a gray painted speaker, using some shield over the magnet..long trow and very nice 8 inches speaker, also inside, a tweeter,bottom firing with enormous 2.2 capacitor soldered over the terminal.

The transformer was a big one.... 5 by 5 by 5 inches...something monster alike that, a friend from Telephone company produced to me...the internal wire was very thick, maybe 5 milimeters thickness.

Those early days, the amplifier used Germanium units, reason why you see that someone failled with the upgrade transistor conversion...you can see in the voltage amplifier, that the VBe is around 300 milivolts...and this is a Germanium VBE...or a cutted, class B low biased amplifier..... and not correct..the amplifier is AB biased...so...the 680 ohms resistor must be replaced with 1K2 in series with 470 ohms trimpot to adjust the operational point...also the 10 K resistor must be changed to obtain 22.5 volts in the output line.... good if replace the output condenser with a 10000 uF unit and increase the input capacitor and decrease the protection emitter resistors to 0.22 or even 0.1 ohms.

My unit was very romantic....i was a teenager...ehehehehe.... and those times the VAS transistor was BC177.... the input was BC107...small metalic unit.... metal indication to emitter!

AD149, the big one, made with copper and steel...heavy unit, TO3 alike the 2N3055(RCA) were used as driver...i am not sure about that...if driver or VAS position...and i used 2N3773, a more strong unit than 2N3055, the 2N3773 and 2N3771, could hold 20 ampéres of current.

My heatsinks where made with a Milk can cutted with scissor (Ninho, instantaneous Nestlè Milk).... output condenser was bigger in value, as i already now the effect of that modification and the rectifier was made with many diodes SK in parallell.

The sound source was a portable radio...Nissei was the Brand..if not Nissan... the good FM portable radio used one of the first Hitachi integrated circuits, and the sound was very nice...FM stations was testing their transmittions, only music flowing, and no compressors to destruct dinamics...a good and warm sound of Gershwinn, Kostelanetz and many others were playing all day long.

Adjusting the treble i could equalize the speaker,as used two full range units... producing a 4 ohms load, and supply with 45 volts that did not reduce absolutelly nothing.... enormous over dimensioned transformer..also filtering was bigger than the normal value used those days.... they used 2200uF....i have used more in parallell...may colored, different size...a mess and wonderfull sound the amplifier produced.

I heard it years....more than 10 years...them Mum die and we gave the key to the Catholic Church and we said that they must divide all the gods that was inside to poor families...appartment was sold fast, and i am still suffering missing my Mum.

Well, my Mum and me... we have dance with this amplifier...for long long time....and i miss that sound, and i will have it once again, as my Mum i can have her only inside my heart and my memories.

regards,

Carlos
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Old 11th September 2005, 06:27 AM   #8
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Default Hello dear Greg...good morning...have to see ya here!

Greg, there's some mistakes in the diagram.

You can see that the VBE shown in the VAS is adequated to Germanium, and not to Silicon units...so i made another arrangement.

To adjust the half amplifier voltage, that may be exactly half the supply voltage measured with amplifier in iddle mode, i included also a potenciometer...adjust to 22.50 Volts there...after the electrolitic condenser that may be increased to 10000uf to have a 5 hertz, bottom frequency response... also increase the input capacitor.

Exactly as you perceive first sigth Greg..... those confusion of wiring are all ground...the amplifier do not use simetrical supply... the supply is 45 and zero...in the reality, it use some tricks, and this is equivalent, the same as a simetrical supply with plus 22.5 and negative 22.5, having zero volts at the output...but, that modification will remove the original design...the warm delicious enormous distortions that made us remenber the old days.

Well, to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar!... and modern amplifier must produce better sound... good to keep this one as it was, with small improovements, as now we have, cheaper, enormous electrolitic condensers...and in the past, they were small in capacitance value and very expensive.

It is usefull as reference to compare...this is an old amplifier, and if i can remember, a very good representative of the good old days sound...very nice to evaluation of our progress.

Are you interested Greg?...this is great!....i will send daily mails to you from now to ethernity, as you are turning a very interesting person....will change...not more two personal mails a week, i will increase it slowly...now will be two personal mails!

You know what this interest means to me?

That the observed man is someone that give the reasonable value to the old guys, the ones that start all that world we are living now... the ones can respect Henry Ford and his production line.. The man at Bell Labs, that invented the Germanium transistor, ...our Grandfather work, our fathers knowhow...those things have enormous value,not only beeing the first step to the long journey, but also because they have done the best they could, with the tools and knowledge they have at hand on their evolutionary period of time.

This seems to me "human value Greg".... you are a more valuable guy, as you have feelings, working together science and logics.

Greg, i can remember that this amplifier produced only 25 watts RMS over 4 ohms...but this power without distortion... a 25 nice watts...this is real power...the other value that can be reached can reach more than 5 percent, maybe more than 10 percent distortion.

Well...accepting to use it, inside its own limits, you will have a nice amplifier, sounding nice.

regards,

Carlos
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Old 11th September 2005, 06:53 AM   #9
Nordic is offline Nordic  South Africa
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Hey C.

Always following your posts on new amps...
One of the things I have a problem with is that you guys keep changeing the circuits as a thread goes on, and by the end I do not know which of the circuits are the best.

Also it would be nice when you discuss a DIY project like this if you could give some estimated parts cost.

How do these amps compare to say the sound of a $300 sony AV/tuner?
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Old 11th September 2005, 11:42 AM   #10
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Default Nordic...those modifications are a need to colect contributions..beeing this way, not

Mine or some other one circuit....some schematic, beeing a forum cooperation result, is transformed in the miracle of a son with hundred fathers.

All those fathers will take care of their work, and also, there are big chances that the circuit turn something more evoluted and present less errors.

I have noticed, that there are persons that publish schematics with errors done ... made with that purpose...to fish some friends to cooperate, and to satisfy those ones that have sadic feelings..alike send "shame on you" to appear there.

Things are published to be readed...and the tricks used are not always too much honest.

The best version, have to be your own decision, and the thread will be better if you read it entirelly.... as i read all forum many times, i think everyone may have patience to read a single thread entirelly.

Cost estimation is difficult, as even converting to a dollar, i can buy more parts for a dollar than you can.... interesting that....my country, beeing poor, this pushes the prices down..if not..gods will be inside stock houses, nothing will be sold, as people have no money...this way, our 2N3055 came from China... the price is small, the production price beeing small, enter here with a dollar price lower than your price, and i can buy more for a dollar.

I think this will have enormous differences form country to country...i noticed that U.S people had 60000 dolares anual income and have not the life i have with 24000 thousand dollares!

So, there's not some reference money to evaluate those things...but, if you want to know some good reference.... very hard to produce one amplifier that will cost more than 100 dollares a channel.... boards done by yourself of course, and supply not included.

This amplifier shown...i can make it expending not more than 14 dollares...reason why i cannot make it as a Kit, because some Chip amplifiers may cost less than that...beeing smaller, prettier and good too.... In my country, no way to the guys pay more than an equivalent powered chip.... even if gold plated finishment...my people is clever...too much clever...so clever that we have enormous problems with that!

You may think...why this noisy brazilian, always with this same old song... always GEM, SYMASSYM and AKSA.... always the same song of a beach (ahahahah... waves breaking?) conversation....

Well guys, your amplifier may destroy..smash, erase those i use to use as reference and examples...but i did not construct them..so..i cannot tell a word positive or negative about them...i can only talk, about things i have done and compared.

Do the same...construct and compare...test them and publish them..also search for guys to evaluate for you, in a fair A to B comparison....also you can use computer plots if you prefer...but the problem is that people is lazy to construct and turns pisted with the ones move their essex (i have scaped again...from censors)....hummmm SY is a hell clever!....he will put big charlie again inside the rails and will not delay too much!

regards,

Carlos
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