Hi all, I am new to this forum and so far it seems very interesting.
I often have to service Crown amplifiers and I wonder if anybody knows for sure what output devices are used.
I recently had a MA5000VZ and a MA3600VZ to fix.
Original devices for the 5000VZ were, according to the manual:
PNP 103285-1 and NPN 103286-1 but on one of the channels, I had also a set of PNP C8188-2 and NPN C8187-4
In the 3600VZ I have the same C8188-2 and C8187-4 pair.
Now I know these transistors are made by ONSEMI, I use regularly MJ21195-96 and MJ15022-23 that YORKVILLE SOUND uses in their amplifiers, and the crown transistors have the same pattern, and same batch number format.
Anybody can tell me what motorola (onsemi) device his hidden behind these strange numbers?
I searched the forum for more than an hour and there is a lot of speculation about using different types like the MJ21193-95 or the MJ15024-25, but nothing very conclusive
I have easy access (and cheap) to the MJ21195-96 and MJ15022-23 because of Yorkville, the transistors from crown are almost US$7 each... it hurts.
Another question:
I see from the datasheet that the MJ21195-96 have basically the same specs, except for a slightly higher gain and SOA, than the MJ15022-23, but one says uses the "perforated emitter technology" while the second are "powerbase"...
Anybody can shed some light on this?
Thanks for reading me and sorry for the long post.
I often have to service Crown amplifiers and I wonder if anybody knows for sure what output devices are used.
I recently had a MA5000VZ and a MA3600VZ to fix.
Original devices for the 5000VZ were, according to the manual:
PNP 103285-1 and NPN 103286-1 but on one of the channels, I had also a set of PNP C8188-2 and NPN C8187-4
In the 3600VZ I have the same C8188-2 and C8187-4 pair.
Now I know these transistors are made by ONSEMI, I use regularly MJ21195-96 and MJ15022-23 that YORKVILLE SOUND uses in their amplifiers, and the crown transistors have the same pattern, and same batch number format.
Anybody can tell me what motorola (onsemi) device his hidden behind these strange numbers?
I searched the forum for more than an hour and there is a lot of speculation about using different types like the MJ21193-95 or the MJ15024-25, but nothing very conclusive
I have easy access (and cheap) to the MJ21195-96 and MJ15022-23 because of Yorkville, the transistors from crown are almost US$7 each... it hurts.
Another question:
I see from the datasheet that the MJ21195-96 have basically the same specs, except for a slightly higher gain and SOA, than the MJ15022-23, but one says uses the "perforated emitter technology" while the second are "powerbase"...
Anybody can shed some light on this?
Thanks for reading me and sorry for the long post.
As far as I know, MJ15022-23 are older technology devices from 1980s while MJ21195-96 are newer technology iproved ones from 1990s. Essentially, that is what makes the difference. I've also checked the datasheets and I can't think of any reason for MJ21195-96 not working properly in place of MJ15022-23.
I think either will work, but I wouldn't mix the types for current sharing and thermal tracking reasons.
Who says Crown won't tell you? They have always been vary helpful to me. SOmewhere I have a master parts list from Crown, and it tells the generic for all their house numbers. If I can find it I will post the data.
Crown also tests their power semis and stamps a rating number on them. As far as I know, it is a speed number rather than gain.
COntact Crown and ask if there is a parts listing that included your types. For that matter ask them directly to identify those part numbers. And if you really feel friendly, ask them if they can ship some to you. They told us that you can be one number off on the rating and they will still play together nicely. Just don't m,ix a 3 and an 8.
In any case, if you need a quick sub, those high end Motorola/On Semi types will be fine, just check the power rail voltages
Who says Crown won't tell you? They have always been vary helpful to me. SOmewhere I have a master parts list from Crown, and it tells the generic for all their house numbers. If I can find it I will post the data.
Crown also tests their power semis and stamps a rating number on them. As far as I know, it is a speed number rather than gain.
COntact Crown and ask if there is a parts listing that included your types. For that matter ask them directly to identify those part numbers. And if you really feel friendly, ask them if they can ship some to you. They told us that you can be one number off on the rating and they will still play together nicely. Just don't m,ix a 3 and an 8.
In any case, if you need a quick sub, those high end Motorola/On Semi types will be fine, just check the power rail voltages
Here you can find a lot of service manuals from crown!
http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/legacy/legacamp.htm
http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/legacy/legacamp.htm
I own a Crown Macrotech 3600VZ, with 3 blown transistors C8188. After asking for replacement part from Crown they mailed me that SJ7147 can be substituted. but i cant find datasheet.
Can someone post datasheet for SJ7147-SJ7148
Also suggest if i can use MJ21195-96 OR Mj15024-25 instead.
Regards.
Can someone post datasheet for SJ7147-SJ7148
Also suggest if i can use MJ21195-96 OR Mj15024-25 instead.
Regards.
I own a Crown Macrotech 3600VZ, with 3 blown transistors C8188. After asking for replacement part from Crown they mailed me that SJ7147 can be substituted. but i cant find datasheet.
Can someone post datasheet for SJ7147-SJ7148
Also suggest if i can use MJ21195-96 OR Mj15024-25 instead.
Regards.
If the 15024/15025 works in the 5000, why on earth wouldn't it work in the 3600? It was the most powerful TO-3 available when these amps were first created. 2115/21196 is just the most up-to-date "version".
SJxxxx data sheets don't exist. All they are is standard parts, with either non-standard pacakging or non-standard test/screening. My best estimate is that any special spec just had to do with matching (so the occasional oddball wouldn't come back as a warranty return later, or they wouldn't have to hand-pick common batches the way DIY builders do). There may be some documentation somewhere but it would only be available to the original customer, unless they want the legal conequences of violating an NDA.
SJ numbers are Crown house numbers for common parts. They are telling you that their old part number can be replaced with their newer part number. Neither number will bring up a data sheet.
Ask Crown if they still issue their master parts list. On most of the parts, part number 123XYZ would offer the generic in the description field.
Ask Crown if they still issue their master parts list. On most of the parts, part number 123XYZ would offer the generic in the description field.
Crown part-numbered transistors are in-house numbers and are also graded by Vbe and hfe. Using generic transistors will result in shorter life if the amp is used at its max limits (eg rock venue or disco) and sometimes results in very short life indeed (days or weeks) if the characteristics of the generics differ much.
The grade of transistor was originally denoted by a number stamped on the transistor (1,2,3,4 etc) but now they use a coloured paint dot which follows the resistor colour codes.
If you think $7 is expensive, you should try rip-off Britain, where one Crown graded transistor will cost $15.
The grade of transistor was originally denoted by a number stamped on the transistor (1,2,3,4 etc) but now they use a coloured paint dot which follows the resistor colour codes.
If you think $7 is expensive, you should try rip-off Britain, where one Crown graded transistor will cost $15.
In this case I have also start this thread:
Threshold 800A and other old models: Mospec 2N5876/2N5878 or ON MJ21193/MJ21194 ?
go to this URL:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass...els-mospec-2n5876-2n5878-mj21193-mj21194.html
The question is really fundamentally, regardless of the power amplifier brand.
These specific house numbers for the amplifier brands are very disturbing for me because I do not know the actual manufacturer then. But ordering by Crown could be a good solution also for service by other home audio amplifier brands.
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Almost another decade and I have a couple of MA-5002VZ which also have the C8187-4 transistors (many of them bad). The suggested replacement part for the MJ21195/6 on Farnell is the MJ21193/4 to me they look the same but with the MJ21193/4 having better gain bandwidth product at high current. Any potential issues with replacing whole modules of transistors with this new part?
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MJ21195-D.PDF
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MJ21193-D.PDF
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MJ21195-D.PDF
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MJ21193-D.PDF
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