trouble with high power amp

bombardon73 · 30th July 2005, 11:21 AM

Hi there, I hope someone can help me identifying the problem I have with my Bell PCX 9024 amp. It's a professional ampflifier that can (normally) deliver 2x600 watts (4ohm) and 2x400 watts at 8ohm.

Lately the amp seems not to be able to give that power anymore.
It stil works, but you can't push the amp as far as before.
You can also see it at the LED's, the amp has several green LEDs and two red LEDs. At 1st you could push the amp so that the 2e red LED was blinking, no distortion or whatsoever. But now when I turn the amp upto the 1st red LED that amp allready starts to distort and when I push it a bit further the amp shuts into portection mode. You also hear clicks and pops when it distorts, especially when the limiter mode of the amp is turned on.

I know it's NOT the loudspeakers, I tried several.

I allready opened up the case to check out the tranistors, none of them is getting even warm when I push the amp.

Someone allready told that it could be the large capacitors, because when they don't work correctly the amp gets a powerfailure. Is that right?

There are four of these big guys in this amp (33000uF 63v). When I try to discharge them I noticed that one of them is still charged, one other a bit and the other two not at all. Could this be sign of bad capacitors?

I'm not a electronic wizz so I ask you guys overhere (I'm most of the time in the loudspeaker forum) to shed some light on this problem.

OMNIFEX · 30th July 2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bombardon73

Lately the amp seems not to be able to give that power anymore.
It stil works, but you can't push the amp as far as before.
You can also see it at the LED's, the amp has several green LEDs and two red LEDs. At 1st you could push the amp so that the 2e red LED was blinking, no distortion or whatsoever. But now when I turn the amp upto the 1st red LED that amp allready starts to distort and when I push it a bit further the amp shuts into portection mode. You also hear clicks and pops when it distorts, especially when the limiter mode of the amp is turned on.

Transistors Are Shot.

Quote:

I allready opened up the case to check out the tranistors, none of them is getting even warm when I push the amp.

You Transistors Are Gone.

Time to put it the shop, if you don't know how to fix amplifiers.

bombardon73 · 30th July 2005, 12:04 PM

So, if your transistors are gone your amp can stil be functional?

Because thats what it does, it's still functional but with less power.
Also, both channnels have the same problem. It occurs at the same power level.

OMNIFEX · 30th July 2005, 12:17 PM

Yeah.

You'll just lose around 50 - 80% of the output.

You tried different speaker wires when you tried other
speakers right?

bombardon73 · 30th July 2005, 12:36 PM

Yeah, I tried several things, including cables.

I tried to test the transistors with my digitalmultimeter, but I guess I can't trusts the results since I measure the transistor in the circuit. E and C should not conduct either way, right? but they do.

anatech · 30th July 2005, 07:23 PM

Hi bombardon73,

1. You can not test for transistor leakage in-circuit.

2. If your transistors were shot, they become expensive wire. You blow fuses and that is not happening.

To test filter caps, run the amp no signal and look at the waveform on the capacitor terminals. When they start to go bad you will set "pips" on the leading edge of the waveform. You need an oscilloscope for this. Low AC voltage could do this also. It is also possible you have circuit damage, but who can tell with this much information? When transistors go, it's due to excessive die temperature normally, and they tend to go short. Rarely do they go open. Other stuff tends to change colour rapidly and the magic smoke escapes.

-Chris

bigmike216 · 30th July 2005, 08:17 PM

are you running the amp at a lower load than you were when you could push it right to the top with no distortion? If you were running 8 ohm speakers before, and now are running 4 ohm, this could easily happen, and be perfectly normal.

bombardon73 · 30th July 2005, 08:59 PM

Quote:

bigmike216 wrote: are you running the amp at a lower load than you were when you could push it right to the top with no distortion? If you were running 8 ohm speakers before, and now are running 4 ohm, this could easily happen, and be perfectly normal.

I run the amp with an 8 ohm load right now (also tested it with 16 ohms). The days that I could run it without distorting the speakers were 4 ohms.
The amp actually should handle a 2ohm load (you can read that on the back of the amp).
But when I run a 2 ohms load on it now, it starts to distort faster.

ilimzn · 30th July 2005, 09:41 PM

Check the power supply, namely the rectifier diode or bridges, you may have one dead and the power supply running half-bridge.

mbates14 · 30th July 2005, 11:41 PM

yea, it definately sounds like the rail voltages are a tad low.

Or, the bias could be a bit off, but it would sound "tinny"

30th July 2005, 11:21 AM	#1
bombardon73 diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004	trouble with high power amp Hi there, I hope someone can help me identifying the problem I have with my Bell PCX 9024 amp. It's a professional ampflifier that can (normally) deliver 2x600 watts (4ohm) and 2x400 watts at 8ohm. Lately the amp seems not to be able to give that power anymore. It stil works, but you can't push the amp as far as before. You can also see it at the LED's, the amp has several green LEDs and two red LEDs. At 1st you could push the amp so that the 2e red LED was blinking, no distortion or whatsoever. But now when I turn the amp upto the 1st red LED that amp allready starts to distort and when I push it a bit further the amp shuts into portection mode. You also hear clicks and pops when it distorts, especially when the limiter mode of the amp is turned on. I know it's NOT the loudspeakers, I tried several. I allready opened up the case to check out the tranistors, none of them is getting even warm when I push the amp. Someone allready told that it could be the large capacitors, because when they don't work correctly the amp gets a powerfailure. Is that right? There are four of these big guys in this amp (33000uF 63v). When I try to discharge them I noticed that one of them is still charged, one other a bit and the other two not at all. Could this be sign of bad capacitors? I'm not a electronic wizz so I ask you guys overhere (I'm most of the time in the loudspeaker forum) to shed some light on this problem.

30th July 2005, 12:17 PM	#4
OMNIFEX diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Locked Up In The Amp Rack	Yeah. You'll just lose around 50 - 80% of the output. You tried different speaker wires when you tried other speakers right? __________________ *OMNIFEX*

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30th July 2005, 12:04 PM	#3
bombardon73 diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004	So, if your transistors are gone your amp can stil be functional? Because thats what it does, it's still functional but with less power. Also, both channnels have the same problem. It occurs at the same power level.

30th July 2005, 12:36 PM	#5
bombardon73 diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004	Yeah, I tried several things, including cables. I tried to test the transistors with my digitalmultimeter, but I guess I can't trusts the results since I measure the transistor in the circuit. E and C should not conduct either way, right? but they do.

30th July 2005, 07:23 PM	#6
anatech diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Georgetown, On	Hi bombardon73, 1. You can not test for transistor leakage in-circuit. 2. If your transistors were shot, they become expensive wire. You blow fuses and that is not happening. To test filter caps, run the amp no signal and look at the waveform on the capacitor terminals. When they start to go bad you will set "pips" on the leading edge of the waveform. You need an oscilloscope for this. Low AC voltage could do this also. It is also possible you have circuit damage, but who can tell with this much information? When transistors go, it's due to excessive die temperature normally, and they tend to go short. Rarely do they go open. Other stuff tends to change colour rapidly and the magic smoke escapes. -Chris

30th July 2005, 08:17 PM	#7
bigmike216 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: BC, Canada	are you running the amp at a lower load than you were when you could push it right to the top with no distortion? If you were running 8 ohm speakers before, and now are running 4 ohm, this could easily happen, and be perfectly normal.

30th July 2005, 09:41 PM	#9
ilimzn diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Zagreb	Check the power supply, namely the rectifier diode or bridges, you may have one dead and the power supply running half-bridge.

30th July 2005, 11:41 PM	#10
mbates14 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: non	yea, it definately sounds like the rail voltages are a tad low. Or, the bias could be a bit off, but it would sound "tinny"

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