What output and driver transistors are the high-end manufactures using

[Sigurd Ruschkow]

Hi,

it would be interesting to know a little about what the high end solid state audio manufacturers are using for output and driver transistors for their high-end power amplifiers.

Some people on the forum seem to like these output transistors:
Toshiba 5200 / 1943
Sanken 1216 / 2922
Motorola MJ15022/13, MJ15024/25, MJ21193/94

but what are the high-end audio SS manufacturers using?

If you know the driver and / or output transistors any high-end solid state audio manufacturer is using, this thread can be like a database for people to search!


Thanks,
Sigurd

 

[Giaime]

AM Audio M-150 Reference: 20 Hitachi power mosfets 2Sj162/2sk1058

AM Audio A-1 preamp: dual FETs Toshiba 2sk389/2Sj109, Hitachi 2SK214-2SJ77

Bow Technologies Wazoo: outputs Toshiba 2SK1530/2SJ201

Harman/Kardon 630: 2SD1148/2SB863

Karan Acoustics i180: Sanken 2SC2922/2SA1216 (RET, ring emitter transistor, practically multiple BTJs on a single die, placed like a ring)

Marantz PM 7000: 2SA1941/2SC5198

Thule IA 60 (B): 2SA1633/2SC4278

Yamaha AX 592: 2SA1694 (PNP) e 2SC4467 (NPN)

My NAD 3020: 2N3055/MJ2955

Some of these amps are not really high-end, and some brands are unknown to the masses, that's because some of them are small italian firms. Hope this helps!

Ps my personal preference goes to the MJ15003 and it complementary... simply overkill...

 

[Sigurd Ruschkow]

Thanks!

I can add my power amp that was designed by the Danish hifi magazine called "high fidelity" in 1984.
This 120 W power amp uses:
Sanken 2SC2922 / 2SA1216 and as drivers the BD419/420

Might aswell add the AKSA amp as one could call that a high-end amp: Toshiba 5200 / 1943

LC-Audio and their Millennium XP uses
Sanken 2SC2922 / 2SA1216 + 2SD1763A / 2SB1188A
and in their ZAPsolute MK4 they use
Sanken 2SC2922 / 2SA1216 + 2SA1633 / 2SC4278


This is the "high fidlity" amp:

Sigurd

 

[Eva]

Essentially Sanken, Toshiba and Sanyo devices are the ones used for bipolar output stages

 

[Leolabs]

Musical Fidelity modern days favourite:SAP15/SAN15

They are darlingtons from Sanken,with on-die thermal compensation diodes(bye Vbe multiplier if u r lazy),much close to Kenwood's TRAIT. Look like normal TO-264 power devices with 5 pins.

 

[K-amps]

Essentially Sanken, Toshiba and Sanyo devices are the ones used for bipolar output stages

Tsk Tsk Tsk Eva, you pay no homage to the mighty Dan D'....

he has always used Motorola/ ON outputs.

Sigurd, Krell uses proprietary outputs from On semi (MOT). Possibly closest match would be MJ21193/4/5/6.

JC Halo's use Sankens

ML uses TOS in newer models.

 

[Jan Dupont]

One thing is what they did use......
Another thing is what they SHOULD have used

I will go for Motorola/OnSemi or Sanken

 

[binary]

Someone knows which are the power transistors used in new JVC receivers? Could someone inform, please?

 

[Eva]

Here in Europe I've never seen Motorola/OnSemi devices anywhere but in PA equipment

 

[Gasho]

This is the scheme of my Classe DR8 (DR9).
This amp have very transparent , smooth , and powerfull sound.
It uses custom Motorola MJ15003/15004 transistors, 8 for output and 2 for driver stage.

 

[Giaime]

Why "customs"? They're currently being manufactured...

 

[Gasho]

Why "customs"? They're currently being manufactured...

Becouse they are made special for Classe . I am not shure but I think they are made with some mods in makeing process , with better care , ticker electrodes inside semiconductive substrat..

That is not rare thing in high end. Krell also use its own custom transistors with Krell logo on housing, and a lots of other top brands.

With caps and resistors is the same thing , that is why DIY clones never sounds the same as originals.

 

[K-amps]

Becouse they are made special for Classe . I am not shure but I think they are made with some mods in makeing process , with better care , ticker electrodes inside semiconductive substrat..

That is not rare thing in high end. Krell also use its own custom transistors with Krell logo on housing, and a lots of other top brands.

With caps and resistors is the same thing , that is why DIY clones never sounds the same as originals.

In Krell's case, they are supposedly fully custom, hence no sub exists, closest are probably 21195/06 but they are slower. The krell parts are 30Mhz. In Classe's case, are they MJ15003/4 relabelled? If not, they are really not MJ15003/4... are they?

 

[Gasho]

Here is sheme

 

[K-amps]

Maybe I missing something. It clearly says MJ15003/4, why is that custom? Perhaps you meant "selected" devices?

 

[Gasho]

Maybe I missing something. It clearly says MJ15003/4, why is that custom? Perhaps you meant "selected" devices?

They are MJ 15003/4 with same electrical parameters , but they are more robust , linear , higher quality than off shelf ones. Offcourse the are hand mached.

 

[Upupa Epops]

Custom made ? No, they are standard devices, only selected at closer tolerances, which is not problem for manufacturer , only you must take minimal ten thousand of pieces . And marking is in this case the last thing, which make this manufacturer extaordinary .

 

[anatech]

So many times it's just a "house number". Remember the 60's and 70's when this type of thing was common? Almost everyone did it. Sometimes the leads were longer (Bryston), but I wouldn't call it a better device.

When manufacturing, the device tolerances are closer due to the volumes you get. Today the tolerances are much closer in a lot.

-Chris

 

[jacco vermeulen]

Because they are made special for Classe
With caps and resistors is the same thing

Be aware that audio is only a small portion of electronics.
Only Japanese companies have the connections to have components custom order made.
Or companies as Philips who are/were both in the audio business as well as components production.
I owned one of the first-model CD-players, the Philips CD100(1983). The all-alloy CDM1 unit was used solely for top range Philips CD-players for a number of years. Later Philips sold the units to HighEnd CD-player manufacturers. Philips has not competed at the top of the CD-player market for a long time, the CDM units are still manufactured for others.
Companies as Krell and Classe are just small fish, at best they can have components labelled differently.
In the past Krell ordered Mallory capacitors with a Krell label, the capacitors still had the factory coding.
The components themselves are regular close-tolerance production models, final selection of active parts the companies need do themselves.
Mark Levinson used his "girlfriend" to select the thousands of transistors he needed for his Cello amplifiers.
Audio companies have been speaking cockamania BS about custom components for a long time, and still do in their model brochures, and people are still buying their stories.
Classe in the 80s looked like DIY copies, the components they used were the same used here in the DIY scene: Philips, Wima, etc. In the DR3VHC i owned, and as the pic of the DR9 shows.
Some small companies used to sand factory labels off the components and spray a color on them to make them look custom.

 

[amplifierguru]

I have used MJ15003/4 in commercial designs since 1974 - P.A. and in Class A High End and doubt very much that the audio manufacturers' ones have any special features except for matching or gain (beta). Putting their own name is for commercial reasons mostly so you need to source replacements from them.

Incidentally the Classe design appears pretty ordinary fare with capacitor coupling, undegenerated input pair and CE output.