Input sensitivity

keyser · 18th February 2005, 01:20 PM

Hi,

I've got 2 poweramps. One has input sensitivity of:

Input sensitivity (for rated output into 8 ohms) 1.1V

The other has input sensitivity of:

Input sensitivity 0.77V

With the second amp no load is mentioned. What does the manufacturer mean?

Netlist · 18th February 2005, 01:53 PM

That would be the minimum needed input voltage to get the maximum output power.

/Hugo

darkfenriz · 18th February 2005, 08:18 PM

well...
Input sensitivity shouldn't be much dependent on load as audio amps are voltage amplifiers, aren't they

anatech · 18th February 2005, 11:39 PM

Hi darkfenriz,
The output voltage may drop depending on the damping factor. Not very much at all but this is an exact answer to your question. In practice with an average amp - not that you will notice, so yes.
-Chris

PRR · 19th February 2005, 06:24 AM

> Input sensitivity (for rated output into 8 ohms) 1.1V
Input sensitivity 0.77V
With the second amp no load is mentioned. What does the manufacturer mean?
Input sensitivity shouldn't be much dependent on load as audio amps are voltage amplifiers

Yes, but they are not perfect voltage sources.

Rated output voltage varies with load.

A typical amp may be rated 160 Watts in 4 ohms, 100 Watts in 8 ohms, 60 watts in 16 ohms.

In voltage, these are 25V in 4 ohms, 28V in 8 ohms, 31V in 16 ohms.

The power supply sags as the load resistance decreases. A 20% sag is not at all uncommon.

The amplifier voltage gain is probably constant over this range of loads. If damping factor is 1,000, then the voltage gain drops 0.01%, not enough to measure easily.

Gain might be 20 (+/-0.01%).

So the input sensitivity is 25V/20= 1.25V in 4 ohms, 28V/20= 1.4V in 8 ohms, 31V/20= 1.55V in 16 ohms.

The range from 1.25V to 1.55V is measurable but probably not very important.

One maker choose to say what the test load was, the other didn't. This is often NOT a designer decision, but some manual-writer who just barely knows what an amplifier is.

darkfenriz · 19th February 2005, 01:32 PM

I think the good modern amp should have (almost) double power on 4 ohm compared to 8 ohm. Otherwise it means output devices are on the threshold of Icmax/Idmax (=poor linearity). Emitter resistors aren't so crucial.

anatech · 19th February 2005, 03:08 PM

The older mainstream amplifiers used to almost double the output power on 4 ohm loads (ie Marantz 500). Unless you spend $$$ on a new amp, forget it. Power transformers and heatsinks add weight and cost money. You will therefore find the minimum (or lower) capasity installed in newer avaerage consumer grade amplifiers.

Methinks you are idealistic there darkfenriz. I've said it before. Early on, we consumers voted for crap with our dollars, now that's about all there is in the mainstream. Yeah us! And that's what DIY is all about.

-Chris

18th February 2005, 01:20 PM	#1
keyser diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Netherlands	Input sensitivity Hi, I've got 2 poweramps. One has input sensitivity of: Input sensitivity (for rated output into 8 ohms) 1.1V The other has input sensitivity of: Input sensitivity 0.77V With the second amp no load is mentioned. What does the manufacturer mean? __________________ "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" - Friedrich Nietzsche Cardioid-like + Waveguide 2-way

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18th February 2005, 01:53 PM	#2
Netlist diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003	That would be the minimum needed input voltage to get the maximum output power. /Hugo

18th February 2005, 08:18 PM	#3
darkfenriz diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Warsaw	well... Input sensitivity shouldn't be much dependent on load as audio amps are voltage amplifiers, aren't they

18th February 2005, 11:39 PM	#4
anatech diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Georgetown, On	Hi darkfenriz, The output voltage may drop depending on the damping factor. Not very much at all but this is an exact answer to your question. In practice with an average amp - not that you will notice, so yes. -Chris

19th February 2005, 06:24 AM	#5
PRR diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA	> Input sensitivity (for rated output into 8 ohms) 1.1V Input sensitivity 0.77V With the second amp no load is mentioned. What does the manufacturer mean? Input sensitivity shouldn't be much dependent on load as audio amps are voltage amplifiers Yes, but they are not perfect voltage sources. Rated output voltage varies with load. A typical amp may be rated 160 Watts in 4 ohms, 100 Watts in 8 ohms, 60 watts in 16 ohms. In voltage, these are 25V in 4 ohms, 28V in 8 ohms, 31V in 16 ohms. The power supply sags as the load resistance decreases. A 20% sag is not at all uncommon. The amplifier voltage gain is probably constant over this range of loads. If damping factor is 1,000, then the voltage gain drops 0.01%, not enough to measure easily. Gain might be 20 (+/-0.01%). So the input sensitivity is 25V/20= 1.25V in 4 ohms, 28V/20= 1.4V in 8 ohms, 31V/20= 1.55V in 16 ohms. The range from 1.25V to 1.55V is measurable but probably not very important. One maker choose to say what the test load was, the other didn't. This is often NOT a designer decision, but some manual-writer who just barely knows what an amplifier is.

19th February 2005, 01:32 PM	#6
darkfenriz diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Warsaw	I think the good modern amp should have (almost) double power on 4 ohm compared to 8 ohm. Otherwise it means output devices are on the threshold of Icmax/Idmax (=poor linearity). Emitter resistors aren't so crucial.

19th February 2005, 03:08 PM	#7
anatech diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Georgetown, On	The older mainstream amplifiers used to almost double the output power on 4 ohm loads (ie Marantz 500). Unless you spend $$$ on a new amp, forget it. Power transformers and heatsinks add weight and cost money. You will therefore find the minimum (or lower) capasity installed in newer avaerage consumer grade amplifiers. Methinks you are idealistic there darkfenriz. I've said it before. Early on, we consumers voted for crap with our dollars, now that's about all there is in the mainstream. Yeah us! And that's what DIY is all about. -Chris

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