Discussion about Pioneer cheap DVD player

murat · 29th December 2004, 08:25 PM

Couple of days ago I wrote to tech. support of Pioneer about a cheap ($70) DVD-CD everything player (wma, mp3). Here is what I exactly wrote:

" I was checking users manual of DV-270/271/275 DVD/CD player. I wonder whether
the digital audio characteristics also apply to audio (analog) output? If
different, What are the S/N ratio and THD values
for analog audio output? Thanks,"

Specs for digital coax out were 0.002 THD and 115 dB S/N ratio.

Here is the response I got:

"It only applies to the digital output. For analogue it depends on the source
you are connecting it to."

Does the answer mean anything to you??? OK, I am totally unfamiliar to digital concepts and maybe need to be educated. I would think that issues like THD and S/N would arrise about analog out - not to digital out. But apparently I am wrong because the specs were given for digital coax out. That is why I wrote to pioneer. I am totally lost. Please educate me!!!

If the analog out is not satisfactory, is there an affordable digital-analog converter I can connect to coax and then send to the amp analog signal? There was also a recent discussion about cheap DVD players in chip amps forum:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=23364

Thanks,

Murat

murat · 29th December 2004, 08:28 PM

Sorry,

The correct link is:

Super Cheap DVD players

anatech · 29th December 2004, 09:14 PM

Hi murat,
Of course the response you received was ill informed. I would not expect high audio performance on this unit. Why bother using an external D/A converter? Garbage in, garbage out.
Everything works together (transport, RF demodulator, DSP, DAC, output circuit and power supply) to bring good sound. The same holds true for a straight CD player. This is why there are more expensive units on the market. Just listen to it, listen to other units. Buy the one you like the sound of. Besides, the sound also depends on the rest of your system and room.
-Chris

murat · 29th December 2004, 09:26 PM

Well, the all I know is that I cannot go for a multi-hundered $$ for CD player. As my system; non yet. I started to build Leach amp. At the and i will have cheap 12 dB-3way crossover, and cheap components on it. Still I know by little experience that it will sound much better than the most expensive walmart midi. Having said that, less than %0,1 THD and ~100 dB would be ok for CD player out. Am I asking too much?

anatech · 29th December 2004, 09:40 PM

Hi murat,
I hate to say it, but maybe. Just enjoy this for now and upgrade later.

Just think, if it works for a year (and it has warranty) AMAZING!

Betcha the laser P/U costs more than $70.00 (retail). The cost of servicing the unit easily may exceed $70.00. At these prices, DVD players are commodities and are not worth much thought or worry. If it makes you feel better, pick up an external DAC on Ebay for cheap and use it.
-Chris

murat · 30th December 2004, 01:46 PM

I wrote again the following:

"Analog output circuitry will introduce its noise and harmonic distortion. The receiver or amplifier which we connect to the player is not relevant while questioning the analog output parameters. Moreover the "source" is the player unit itself; not the power amplifier. So, I would appreciate if the question and answer revised again. Thanks,"

And here is the reply:

"We could not find printed information on this, how ever, tech support is saying that it is around 118 dB for the S/N Ratio and 0.0008 % THD."

Interesting company!! But hey, if these numbers are anywhere close to the actual values this thing is supposed to sound OK.

analog_sa · 30th December 2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

thing is supposed to sound OK

Why?

MikeB · 30th December 2004, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by murat

Specs for digital coax out were 0.002 THD and 115 dB S/N ratio.

It's funny that pioneer writes these values into the sheet !
But, these values are ~correct, it represents the resolution of 16bit
PCM-sound. For a full swing with 16bits you have +/- 32768 steps,
means the smallest step possible is 1/32768 = 0.003% (rounded)
and ~90db snr.
Okay, so much about amps with 0.0001% thd... (And people saying
they can easily hear 0.003% distortion, testing this with CD)

Mike

MikeB · 30th December 2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by murat

"We could not find printed information on this, how ever, tech support is saying that it is around 118 dB for the S/N Ratio and 0.0008 % THD."

You should doubt these numbers, that's above the ratings of their
flagship-player "DV-757Ai", it has 0.0009% thd and 118db snr...

Mike

murat · 30th December 2004, 03:33 PM

Mike,

As it should be clear I don't know much about digital stuff. But, what they use is 192 KHz/24-bit. They say that this brings the numbers for the digital output given at the very top; 1st post. Those are from users manual.

But the numbers just above supposedly belongs to analog out only - independent from the dac specs. I also don't belive these numbers much as they are not written anywhere and they are too high for price maybe. Probably the represantative wants me to shut up and buy the item!!

Murat

29th December 2004, 08:25 PM	#1
murat diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: knoxville tn	Discussion about Pioneer cheap DVD player Couple of days ago I wrote to tech. support of Pioneer about a cheap ($70) DVD-CD everything player (wma, mp3). Here is what I exactly wrote: " I was checking users manual of DV-270/271/275 DVD/CD player. I wonder whether the digital audio characteristics also apply to audio (analog) output? If different, What are the S/N ratio and THD values for analog audio output? Thanks," Specs for digital coax out were 0.002 THD and 115 dB S/N ratio. Here is the response I got: "It only applies to the digital output. For analogue it depends on the source you are connecting it to." Does the answer mean anything to you??? OK, I am totally unfamiliar to digital concepts and maybe need to be educated. I would think that issues like THD and S/N would arrise about analog out - not to digital out. But apparently I am wrong because the specs were given for digital coax out. That is why I wrote to pioneer. I am totally lost. Please educate me!!! If the analog out is not satisfactory, is there an affordable digital-analog converter I can connect to coax and then send to the amp analog signal? There was also a recent discussion about cheap DVD players in chip amps forum: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=23364 Thanks, Murat

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29th December 2004, 08:28 PM	#2
murat diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: knoxville tn	Sorry, The correct link is: Super Cheap DVD players

29th December 2004, 09:14 PM	#3
anatech diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Georgetown, On	Hi murat, Of course the response you received was ill informed. I would not expect high audio performance on this unit. Why bother using an external D/A converter? Garbage in, garbage out. Everything works together (transport, RF demodulator, DSP, DAC, output circuit and power supply) to bring good sound. The same holds true for a straight CD player. This is why there are more expensive units on the market. Just listen to it, listen to other units. Buy the one you like the sound of. Besides, the sound also depends on the rest of your system and room. -Chris

29th December 2004, 09:26 PM	#4
murat diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: knoxville tn	Well, the all I know is that I cannot go for a multi-hundered $$ for CD player. As my system; non yet. I started to build Leach amp. At the and i will have cheap 12 dB-3way crossover, and cheap components on it. Still I know by little experience that it will sound much better than the most expensive walmart midi. Having said that, less than %0,1 THD and ~100 dB would be ok for CD player out. Am I asking too much?

29th December 2004, 09:40 PM	#5
anatech diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Georgetown, On	Hi murat, I hate to say it, but maybe. Just enjoy this for now and upgrade later. Just think, if it works for a year (and it has warranty) AMAZING! Betcha the laser P/U costs more than $70.00 (retail). The cost of servicing the unit easily may exceed $70.00. At these prices, DVD players are commodities and are not worth much thought or worry. If it makes you feel better, pick up an external DAC on Ebay for cheap and use it. -Chris

30th December 2004, 01:46 PM	#6
murat diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: knoxville tn	I wrote again the following: "Analog output circuitry will introduce its noise and harmonic distortion. The receiver or amplifier which we connect to the player is not relevant while questioning the analog output parameters. Moreover the "source" is the player unit itself; not the power amplifier. So, I would appreciate if the question and answer revised again. Thanks," And here is the reply: "We could not find printed information on this, how ever, tech support is saying that it is around 118 dB for the S/N Ratio and 0.0008 % THD." Interesting company!! But hey, if these numbers are anywhere close to the actual values this thing is supposed to sound OK.

30th December 2004, 03:33 PM	#10
murat diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: knoxville tn	Mike, As it should be clear I don't know much about digital stuff. But, what they use is 192 KHz/24-bit. They say that this brings the numbers for the digital output given at the very top; 1st post. Those are from users manual. But the numbers just above supposedly belongs to analog out only - independent from the dac specs. I also don't belive these numbers much as they are not written anywhere and they are too high for price maybe. Probably the represantative wants me to shut up and buy the item!! Murat