Sorry this jpg file not compact.
Attached is scanned image of two 'Toshiba' 2SC5200-O from six just purchased fron Farnell inone UK.
Also for reference two genuine Toshiba 2SC3281. My previous 2SC5200 are in prototypes and cannot be photographed - they look just like the 2SC3281 with symmetrical pins and very shiny smooth metal backs.
Anyone seen anything like these new to me 2SC5200 before - the back are a soft white metal and one has a black paint run down it.
More fakes I wonder, but from Farnell !!!
Cheers ........... Graham.
Attached is scanned image of two 'Toshiba' 2SC5200-O from six just purchased fron Farnell inone UK.
Also for reference two genuine Toshiba 2SC3281. My previous 2SC5200 are in prototypes and cannot be photographed - they look just like the 2SC3281 with symmetrical pins and very shiny smooth metal backs.
Anyone seen anything like these new to me 2SC5200 before - the back are a soft white metal and one has a black paint run down it.
More fakes I wonder, but from Farnell !!!
Cheers ........... Graham.
Hi !
You can't even call them "fakes", they are not stamped with "Toshiba" !
If they were sold to you as original toshiba, you really should return
them, it's very likely they don't have the quality...
Mike, beeing happy with samples directly from onsemi... 😀
You can't even call them "fakes", they are not stamped with "Toshiba" !
If they were sold to you as original toshiba, you really should return
them, it's very likely they don't have the quality...
Mike, beeing happy with samples directly from onsemi... 😀
I think I have already seen this signature with three diagonal arrows in some 'alternative' 2SJ50 and 2SK135 devices I bought sometime ago, when the original Toshiba ones were discontinued long ago
Also, I think there are lots of companies currently manufacturing 2SC5200 clones/fakes and others selling raw '2SC5200' dies, check this out :
http://jingxin.en.alibaba.com/produ...__Silicon_PNP_NPN_Power_Transistor_Wafer.html
I have nothing against China or India, nor against alternative manufacturers. But if they want to clone Toshiba or Sanken devices and gain good reputation with that, they must manufacture them with comparable quality instead of making unusable stuff. Otherwise, they will be allways known as 'those m***er *u**ers manufacturing s**t'
Also, I think there are lots of companies currently manufacturing 2SC5200 clones/fakes and others selling raw '2SC5200' dies, check this out :
http://jingxin.en.alibaba.com/produ...__Silicon_PNP_NPN_Power_Transistor_Wafer.html
I have nothing against China or India, nor against alternative manufacturers. But if they want to clone Toshiba or Sanken devices and gain good reputation with that, they must manufacture them with comparable quality instead of making unusable stuff. Otherwise, they will be allways known as 'those m***er *u**ers manufacturing s**t'
Thanks Eva,
Will be telephoning Farnell first thing in the (Monday) morning.
Cheers ........ Graham.
Will be telephoning Farnell first thing in the (Monday) morning.
Cheers ........ Graham.
Catalogue and .pdf were Toshiba, Farnell state the devices are
? Magnatec ?
When viewed with a magnifier, I can see that their original wring had bee abraded, then black sprayed and overprinted.
They go back tomorrow.
Cheers ............. Graham.
? Magnatec ?
When viewed with a magnifier, I can see that their original wring had bee abraded, then black sprayed and overprinted.
They go back tomorrow.
Cheers ............. Graham.
So this signature with three diagonal arrows is from Magnatec
More interesting reading :
About Magnatec : http://www.instantboard.com/users/rode/viewtopic.php?p=2447
Fake and genuine pictures : http://transfal.tripod.com/
The last one is in Spanish, but shows a lot of pictures. The genuine devices are allways the ones with big center-placed dies and with no white silicone nor yellow glue covering the dies
Obviously, Magnatec is still storing huge amounts of 2SC3281, 2SA1302, 2SC5200 and 2SA1943 fakes originally marked as Toshiba's. Now they are selling them rebrandied as Magnatec's to avoid legal issues, I suppose
Otherwise they would have to destroy their fake stocks...
I wouldn't ever rely on digikey without inspecting the devices first. Since the 2SA1302/2SC3281 fake market has shrunk a lot, the fake manufacturers appear to be focusing now on 2SC5200/2SA1943 fakes and filling the market with them. Sanken fakes are also wide spread on the market now
More interesting reading :
About Magnatec : http://www.instantboard.com/users/rode/viewtopic.php?p=2447
Fake and genuine pictures : http://transfal.tripod.com/
The last one is in Spanish, but shows a lot of pictures. The genuine devices are allways the ones with big center-placed dies and with no white silicone nor yellow glue covering the dies
Obviously, Magnatec is still storing huge amounts of 2SC3281, 2SA1302, 2SC5200 and 2SA1943 fakes originally marked as Toshiba's. Now they are selling them rebrandied as Magnatec's to avoid legal issues, I suppose
Otherwise they would have to destroy their fake stocks...
I wouldn't ever rely on digikey without inspecting the devices first. Since the 2SA1302/2SC3281 fake market has shrunk a lot, the fake manufacturers appear to be focusing now on 2SC5200/2SA1943 fakes and filling the market with them. Sanken fakes are also wide spread on the market now
I sent the guys at Farnell.be a friendly mail, explaining the problem.
Lets wait for their answer.
/Hugo
Lets wait for their answer.
/Hugo
Hi Eva
My transistors look just like the left 2SB1429 in your 'transfal.tripod' posting.
The heatsink is visible through the epoxy.
The epoxy is unevenly chopped at the top of the body. (My scanner did not show this.)
Epoxy sheaths the pinouts.
The outer pins are not symmetrically shaped.
Tiny numbers/letters appear inside the indents beside the mouting hole.
I cannot understand the Spanish, so don't know whether the left device is meant to be genuine or not.
My thought is - that a 'generic model' could have been re-numbered !
I would however be doubtful about any 'generic' having the low capacitance that comes with genuine 2SC5200s.
Cheers .......... Graham.
My transistors look just like the left 2SB1429 in your 'transfal.tripod' posting.
The heatsink is visible through the epoxy.
The epoxy is unevenly chopped at the top of the body. (My scanner did not show this.)
Epoxy sheaths the pinouts.
The outer pins are not symmetrically shaped.
Tiny numbers/letters appear inside the indents beside the mouting hole.
I cannot understand the Spanish, so don't know whether the left device is meant to be genuine or not.
My thought is - that a 'generic model' could have been re-numbered !
I would however be doubtful about any 'generic' having the low capacitance that comes with genuine 2SC5200s.
Cheers .......... Graham.
Eva said:
The to220 mounted inside the sanken are really unbelievable !
These fake-manufactures should really eat their crap...
But, on the above page, where are genuine sankens ?
Impossible to get these ?
Mike
Got a phonecall from the Farnell Sales Dept. this morning with the man sitting in front of this thread.
He assured me that Farnell takes this case very seriously. An explanation and legal statement has yet to be made as he could only guess why the fakes entered their warehouse.
I encouraged him to post a justification in this thread.
This is however to be discussed with several internal departments.
I applaud their reaction as I told them in the mail that they are one of the few suppliers to be trusted regarding genuine components.
They also promised to keep me/us informed.
/Hugo 🙂
He assured me that Farnell takes this case very seriously. An explanation and legal statement has yet to be made as he could only guess why the fakes entered their warehouse.
I encouraged him to post a justification in this thread.
This is however to be discussed with several internal departments.
I applaud their reaction as I told them in the mail that they are one of the few suppliers to be trusted regarding genuine components.
They also promised to keep me/us informed.
/Hugo 🙂
Graham Maynard said:
The author of the website thinks that the left 2SB1429 transistor is genuine, as it survived where the the transistor of the right side blew, but obviously this package style is not for from Toshiba, so it may be just an acceptable quality fake or a rebranded similar transistor from other manufacturer
Eva said:
Eva,
thanks for the link, and for your contribution.
The best one on fakes i have seen till now.
Seguro, Eva es la mejor !
MikeB said:
Sorry, was talking crap !
Looking at http://www.ampslab.com/fakes_sankens.htm shows
that sanken actually does build their transistors this way...
Why not using the to3p instead of this big unhandy case ?
MikeB
My fake collection :
'F', 'R', 'B' are obviously invalid hFE ranking letters
The '8F' ones have a diminute die, the '4RB' ones have a bigger die but still much smaller than the originals. Both were covered with white silicone
Not much to say here, these are classic fakes...
Lots of wasted money
The extra copper plate [in addition to the TO3-P plate] used by Sanken enhances DC and pulse SOA, altough not all models use them. TO-3 devices from ON-Semi use a similar copper plate between the die and the steel case. I think I have some fake and genuine Sanken 2SC3264 and 2SA1295 already opened but I didn't remember where I put them...🙄 🙄
Unless I'm wrong, the C3264/A1295 pair features too big a die to fit inside a TO3-P package
'F', 'R', 'B' are obviously invalid hFE ranking letters
The '8F' ones have a diminute die, the '4RB' ones have a bigger die but still much smaller than the originals. Both were covered with white silicone
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Not much to say here, these are classic fakes...
Lots of wasted money
The extra copper plate [in addition to the TO3-P plate] used by Sanken enhances DC and pulse SOA, altough not all models use them. TO-3 devices from ON-Semi use a similar copper plate between the die and the steel case. I think I have some fake and genuine Sanken 2SC3264 and 2SA1295 already opened but I didn't remember where I put them...🙄 🙄
Unless I'm wrong, the C3264/A1295 pair features too big a die to fit inside a TO3-P package
The 3281/1302 became a nightmare, as the 2SC5200 is a successor i can imagine that these fakes will be flooding the market, even before the official 5200 production is ended.
Just a week or so ago someone offered a bunch of 2SC5200 for sale on DIYaudio.
What are the odds that those were fakes,in your opinion ?
Rephrased, would it be advisable to still buy those transistors if they were offered for sale somewhere here?
Jacco
Just a week or so ago someone offered a bunch of 2SC5200 for sale on DIYaudio.
What are the odds that those were fakes,in your opinion ?
Rephrased, would it be advisable to still buy those transistors if they were offered for sale somewhere here?
Jacco
I think the best way to know if a lot of transistors are fakes is taking some samples and analyzing them
Most fakes look identycal to original devices at first sight
Use the search engine, there are some old threads about fakes and fake detection
Most fakes look identycal to original devices at first sight
Use the search engine, there are some old threads about fakes and fake detection
I think this circuit produces only 50W@8 ohm / 90W@4 ohm so the fake devices may work fine
Those 350W ratings usually come from the sum of the peak power produced by both channels driving 4 ohms each
Even TO-220 devices should work here [ie: BD911/912 from ST]. Anyway, those MT-200 cases actually contain TO-220 dies... 😀
Those 350W ratings usually come from the sum of the peak power produced by both channels driving 4 ohms each
Even TO-220 devices should work here [ie: BD911/912 from ST]. Anyway, those MT-200 cases actually contain TO-220 dies... 😀
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