Genuine 2SC5200 ???

Graham Maynard · 20th November 2004, 03:43 PM

Sorry this jpg file not compact.

Attached is scanned image of two 'Toshiba' 2SC5200-O from six just purchased fron Farnell inone UK.

Also for reference two genuine Toshiba 2SC3281. My previous 2SC5200 are in prototypes and cannot be photographed - they look just like the 2SC3281 with symmetrical pins and very shiny smooth metal backs.

Anyone seen anything like these new to me 2SC5200 before - the back are a soft white metal and one has a black paint run down it.

More fakes I wonder, but from Farnell !!!

Cheers ........... Graham.

Graham Maynard · 20th November 2004, 03:52 PM

Oops ! had to resize.

Attached

MikeB · 20th November 2004, 04:16 PM

Hi !

You can't even call them "fakes", they are not stamped with "Toshiba" !
If they were sold to you as original toshiba, you really should return
them, it's very likely they don't have the quality...

Mike, beeing happy with samples directly from onsemi...

Eva · 21st November 2004, 07:15 AM

I think I have already seen this signature with three diagonal arrows in some 'alternative' 2SJ50 and 2SK135 devices I bought sometime ago, when the original Toshiba ones were discontinued long ago

Also, I think there are lots of companies currently manufacturing 2SC5200 clones/fakes and others selling raw '2SC5200' dies, check this out :

http://jingxin.en.alibaba.com/produc...tor_Wafer.html

I have nothing against China or India, nor against alternative manufacturers. But if they want to clone Toshiba or Sanken devices and gain good reputation with that, they must manufacture them with comparable quality instead of making unusable stuff. Otherwise, they will be allways known as 'those m***er *u**ers manufacturing s**t'

Graham Maynard · 21st November 2004, 08:18 PM

Thanks Eva,

Will be telephoning Farnell first thing in the (Monday) morning.

Cheers ........ Graham.

Graham Maynard · 22nd November 2004, 07:17 PM

Catalogue and .pdf were Toshiba, Farnell state the devices are

? Magnatec ?

When viewed with a magnifier, I can see that their original wring had bee abraded, then black sprayed and overprinted.

They go back tomorrow.

Cheers ............. Graham.

Dave · 22nd November 2004, 07:31 PM

You can buy these devices from www.digi-key.com They source directly from Toshiba.

Eva · 22nd November 2004, 07:46 PM

So this signature with three diagonal arrows is from Magnatec

More interesting reading :

About Magnatec : http://www.instantboard.com/users/ro...pic.php?p=2447

Fake and genuine pictures : http://transfal.tripod.com/

The last one is in Spanish, but shows a lot of pictures. The genuine devices are allways the ones with big center-placed dies and with no white silicone nor yellow glue covering the dies

Obviously, Magnatec is still storing huge amounts of 2SC3281, 2SA1302, 2SC5200 and 2SA1943 fakes originally marked as Toshiba's. Now they are selling them rebrandied as Magnatec's to avoid legal issues, I suppose

Otherwise they would have to destroy their fake stocks...

I wouldn't ever rely on digikey without inspecting the devices first. Since the 2SA1302/2SC3281 fake market has shrunk a lot, the fake manufacturers appear to be focusing now on 2SC5200/2SA1943 fakes and filling the market with them. Sanken fakes are also wide spread on the market now

Netlist · 22nd November 2004, 07:49 PM

I sent the guys at Farnell.be a friendly mail, explaining the problem.
Lets wait for their answer.

/Hugo

Graham Maynard · 23rd November 2004, 07:13 AM

Hi Eva

My transistors look just like the left 2SB1429 in your 'transfal.tripod' posting.

The heatsink is visible through the epoxy.
The epoxy is unevenly chopped at the top of the body. (My scanner did not show this.)
Epoxy sheaths the pinouts.
The outer pins are not symmetrically shaped.
Tiny numbers/letters appear inside the indents beside the mouting hole.

I cannot understand the Spanish, so don't know whether the left device is meant to be genuine or not.

My thought is - that a 'generic model' could have been re-numbered !
I would however be doubtful about any 'generic' having the low capacitance that comes with genuine 2SC5200s.

Cheers .......... Graham.

20th November 2004, 03:43 PM	#1
Graham Maynard diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: UK	Genuine 2SC5200 ??? Sorry this jpg file not compact. Attached is scanned image of two 'Toshiba' 2SC5200-O from six just purchased fron Farnell inone UK. Also for reference two genuine Toshiba 2SC3281. My previous 2SC5200 are in prototypes and cannot be photographed - they look just like the 2SC3281 with symmetrical pins and very shiny smooth metal backs. Anyone seen anything like these new to me 2SC5200 before - the back are a soft white metal and one has a black paint run down it. More fakes I wonder, but from Farnell !!! Cheers ........... Graham.

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20th November 2004, 04:16 PM	#3
MikeB diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Gütersloh	Hi ! You can't even call them "fakes", they are not stamped with "Toshiba" ! If they were sold to you as original toshiba, you really should return them, it's very likely they don't have the quality... Mike, beeing happy with samples directly from onsemi...

21st November 2004, 07:15 AM	#4
Eva diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Near the sea	I think I have already seen this signature with three diagonal arrows in some 'alternative' 2SJ50 and 2SK135 devices I bought sometime ago, when the original Toshiba ones were discontinued long ago Also, I think there are lots of companies currently manufacturing 2SC5200 clones/fakes and others selling raw '2SC5200' dies, check this out : http://jingxin.en.alibaba.com/produc...tor_Wafer.html I have nothing against China or India, nor against alternative manufacturers. But if they want to clone Toshiba or Sanken devices and gain good reputation with that, they must manufacture them with comparable quality instead of making unusable stuff. Otherwise, they will be allways known as 'those m**er uers manufacturing st'

21st November 2004, 08:18 PM	#5
Graham Maynard diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: UK	Thanks Eva, Will be telephoning Farnell first thing in the (Monday) morning. Cheers ........ Graham.

22nd November 2004, 07:17 PM	#6
Graham Maynard diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: UK	Catalogue and .pdf were Toshiba, Farnell state the devices are ? Magnatec ? When viewed with a magnifier, I can see that their original wring had bee abraded, then black sprayed and overprinted. They go back tomorrow. Cheers ............. Graham.

22nd November 2004, 07:31 PM	#7
Dave diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: New Zealand	You can buy these devices from www.digi-key.com They source directly from Toshiba.

22nd November 2004, 07:46 PM	#8
Eva diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Near the sea	So this signature with three diagonal arrows is from Magnatec More interesting reading : About Magnatec : http://www.instantboard.com/users/ro...pic.php?p=2447 Fake and genuine pictures : http://transfal.tripod.com/ The last one is in Spanish, but shows a lot of pictures. The genuine devices are allways the ones with big center-placed dies and with no white silicone nor yellow glue covering the dies Obviously, Magnatec is still storing huge amounts of 2SC3281, 2SA1302, 2SC5200 and 2SA1943 fakes originally marked as Toshiba's. Now they are selling them rebrandied as Magnatec's to avoid legal issues, I suppose Otherwise they would have to destroy their fake stocks... I wouldn't ever rely on digikey without inspecting the devices first. Since the 2SA1302/2SC3281 fake market has shrunk a lot, the fake manufacturers appear to be focusing now on 2SC5200/2SA1943 fakes and filling the market with them. Sanken fakes are also wide spread on the market now

22nd November 2004, 07:49 PM	#9
Netlist diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2003	I sent the guys at Farnell.be a friendly mail, explaining the problem. Lets wait for their answer. /Hugo

23rd November 2004, 07:13 AM	#10
Graham Maynard diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: UK	Hi Eva My transistors look just like the left 2SB1429 in your 'transfal.tripod' posting. The heatsink is visible through the epoxy. The epoxy is unevenly chopped at the top of the body. (My scanner did not show this.) Epoxy sheaths the pinouts. The outer pins are not symmetrically shaped. Tiny numbers/letters appear inside the indents beside the mouting hole. I cannot understand the Spanish, so don't know whether the left device is meant to be genuine or not. My thought is - that a 'generic model' could have been re-numbered ! I would however be doubtful about any 'generic' having the low capacitance that comes with genuine 2SC5200s. Cheers .......... Graham.