Mister, you gotta try hard sometimes to get what you need. I just purchased $1k worth of aluminum exstrusions at A1 yesterday for $60keypunch said:
Further more the owner is building up a nice little inventory of NOS tubes, don't kid yourself, it could be worth revisiting. You will see the A1 aluminum in the weeks ahead as I finish Quasi's amp and mauropenasa/Russ White LM3886 chip amp!keypunch said:
That's wacky stuff cause Supremetronic/Honson sells only factory new electronic components and Active Surplus sells, well you get that one. I could never really compare the two but that's just me.
I drive to Sayal as they are local for me and recently I purchased some Sony Woofers for $5 ea that I am using in a reference monitor speaker! I buy caps, switches, heat shrink wire from Sayal. not the lowest price but it is in stock and its a walk-in self serve!
Don't just walk in to the Tubestore outfit, book an appointment in advance or place your order in advance, otherwise you could waste you time driving there. They are an internet store.
Ja Bless brother!
Re: Short cct detector;
Quasi, I guess further circuitry would be required to hold the low logic state? Perhaps an opamp comparitor behind the opto with a piece of logic behind it, followed by a relay to the mains? Easy to add a fail LED or one of those bicolor/tricolor ones? It could be done discretely just as well. So many amps builders hate to see 5volts inside of their gear. Old fashion
I have 4pcs of 1KVA toroid and each of them have 44-0-44 + 12-0-12 CT leads. They are awesome for amps with low voltage circuitry! John Males, I'm very happy I picked them up at Active Surplus last summer for $20 each!!!
Shawn.
quasi said:
Quasi, I guess further circuitry would be required to hold the low logic state? Perhaps an opamp comparitor behind the opto with a piece of logic behind it, followed by a relay to the mains? Easy to add a fail LED or one of those bicolor/tricolor ones? It could be done discretely just as well. So many amps builders hate to see 5volts inside of their gear. Old fashion
I have 4pcs of 1KVA toroid and each of them have 44-0-44 + 12-0-12 CT leads. They are awesome for amps with low voltage circuitry! John Males, I'm very happy I picked them up at Active Surplus last summer for $20 each!!!
Shawn.
TomWaits said:Mister, you gotta try hard sometimes to get what you need. I just purchased $1k worth of aluminum exstrusions at A1 yesterday for $60
I tried, I had a list with the RFQ numbers and they were not interested in telling me anything. Sounds from what you said that they like people walking in instead. I assume you were going to the Victoria Pak Store? Heatsinks were on my list for Sayal. I look forward to see the heatsinks you purchased. My inquiries were actually not this past week, but week before last week.
Supremetronic/Honson does actually carry some parts of questionable concern. When I asked about certain items to the owers last year, all they say say is they have no idea at all, that just get from China. So I bring test meters to test samples in store before I make decision to purchase any transistors.
Actuve Surplus also carries many new items. My comments apply to new and used. That means Active will charge more for used items than item will cost new, and same applies new vs new. Example was 1000V 35A bridges were about $7.50 Active, whereas Supremetronic/Honson was about $3.00 for exact same. ElectroSonic had Diodes version for $2.67. Active Electronics is not even on map in terms of cost, they overcharge big time.
My comment that better if one visits Sayal. I know they quoted me $6.00 ea for 63V 680uF electrolytics. I can get those for $0.75 at Active that are new. I noted that fact and they insisted that was the cost of the caps in question, Same make, Nippon, and dimensions which were snap/pcb mount types and same as the Active ones for $0.75. Go figure. There were some other examples like this as well. So in end was not motivation for me to make a visit to Sayal. Inventory looks great, but attitude and pricing seems well below any store of any product (electronics or not electronics) one is customer to. Supremetronic/Honson I have found very good, as I do ElectroSonic. ElectroSonic prices can be over the map, so I price first before deciding if they have competive pricing.
Ok, thanks for why you call and make appointment. I had not looked up their web site to find out this fact yet.
Regards,
John L. Males
Willowdale, Ontario
Canada
22 May 2006 02:58
Re: Re: Re: Short cct detector;
927VA
Made in the USA
Production date: 3-03-03
Pulled from a "electric warehouse truck" batery charger system
Potted Core
Yup, they are very heavy and headed to Quasi land. I have four pcs. There are new toroids at Active hmmmn...39-0-39 6 amps something loke that, they look good and they stil have some old ILP toroids too.
keypunch said:
927VA
Made in the USA
Production date: 3-03-03
Pulled from a "electric warehouse truck" batery charger system
Potted Core
Yup, they are very heavy and headed to Quasi land. I have four pcs. There are new toroids at Active hmmmn...39-0-39 6 amps something loke that, they look good and they stil have some old ILP toroids too.
Attachments
Hi Andrew,
No, not a new key or importance to message. Just my usual poor typing. The diyAudio default is to bold a quoted reply. Just every time I interleve my comments to a quoted reply I mess up the copy and paste of those simple bold/quote codes. Boilds down to my usual sloppy typing.
Shawn,
Correct, the the 40V, 43.5V, and 44V toroids I have are like the one you have in the posted pic. They came from a battery charging system and were potted as you noted. All 4 of yours are 927VA? I discovered by accident some were 1127VA and picked up two of those as well. I thought I pic up one or two more of the 1127, but the last few they had, I was not aware they had no more in warehouse, were a bit rough looking physically and I was not sure about state of toroid so I was waiting for the next few to arrive that never did as they had no more as it turns out.
How many amp modules do you intend to run from one of these 44-0-44V 927VA toroids?
The 39V ones at 6A are not potted and look poorly made and often the wrapping comes off of those 39V 6A ones.
Last time I was at Active there were only a couple ILPs left and they were the 40-0-40 2A ones. I did not want to run a seperate toroid to driver stage so I never picked those up.
Regards,
John L. Males
Willowdale, Ontario
Canada
22 May 2006 12:54
22 May 2006 12:57 Typo corrections
No, not a new key or importance to message. Just my usual poor typing.
The diyAudio default is to bold a quoted reply. Just every time I interleve my comments to a quoted reply I mess up the copy and paste of those simple bold/quote codes. Boilds down to my usual sloppy typing.Shawn,
Correct, the the 40V, 43.5V, and 44V toroids I have are like the one you have in the posted pic. They came from a battery charging system and were potted as you noted. All 4 of yours are 927VA? I discovered by accident some were 1127VA and picked up two of those as well. I thought I pic up one or two more of the 1127, but the last few they had, I was not aware they had no more in warehouse, were a bit rough looking physically and I was not sure about state of toroid so I was waiting for the next few to arrive that never did as they had no more as it turns out.
How many amp modules do you intend to run from one of these 44-0-44V 927VA toroids?
The 39V ones at 6A are not potted and look poorly made and often the wrapping comes off of those 39V 6A ones.
Last time I was at Active there were only a couple ILPs left and they were the 40-0-40 2A ones. I did not want to run a seperate toroid to driver stage so I never picked those up.
Regards,
John L. Males
Willowdale, Ontario
Canada
22 May 2006 12:54
22 May 2006 12:57 Typo corrections
AndrewT said:
Andrew, would you add this type of cct protection circuitry to your amp if you were building one? Quasi, is it really required? Do you folks think this amp could destruct if it was abused a little. Andrew, could you tell us more about your circuit? Have you had a chance to use it in your work? Cheers, Shawn.
keypunch said:
Yup, you started to freak me out so I checked. Identical.
One Quasi board per transformer would be sweet but I'm going to be a normal person and power a left and right from one toroid built into one enclosure. I just picked up a few Sprauge 21,000uF/100VDC caps for the power supply. They are in very good shape and they were $10 each. I'm getting there and I have a few other amps to assemble at the same time.
TomWaits said:
Shawn,
Thanks for the pic of caps and heatsinks with toroids. The caps are what value/voltage? Darn how many of those caps did you get for $40.00? From Sayal as well?
I am going to have to improve my parts hunting skills
How many quasi amps do you intend to build? Number of modules per toroid?
Regards,
John L. Males
Willowdale, Ontario
Canada
22 May 2006 19:39
Hi Shawn,
My appologies, I must of been brain dead. I did not see your post for some reason prior to your pic post of heatsinks, toroids, and caps that I asked questions you already answered.
I am assuming you are using one cap per rail, hence 4 caps for two toroids.
I will likely first build a pair of quasi amps based on the 25-0-25V toroid I have. Once I have that down, I will decide if I will do two or 4 modules per the 44-0-44V toroids. I think with the 1127VA versions I will be ok for my listening needs.
Shawn, sorry you had panic over the VA ratings I mentioned. All you may have found was that you might of had some higher than 927VA. These were either 927VA or 1127VA. I am sure you would be more than happy to have 1127VA versions.
Gosh, what load are you thinking of driving to want to mono one module to a one 44-0-44V 927VA toroid? Planning to shake some foundations were you?
I like to go active crossover. I just feel the 44-0-44V would be overkill for tweeters for sure, and likley midranges as well. If that is case then I will only use two modules per 44-0-44V. These toroids were a great price for their specs. I just wish I could find 30-0-30V ones instead as that better suits my power requirements. I decided I had been waiting long enough for some toroids so I dove in with the same toroids you have.
Then like magic quasi's design came along. I had fretted about some other n-channel designs which all seemed to have various issues in terms of stability or part requirements. The beauty of quasi's design is it is simple (I like simple designs from a sonic perspective.), low in the electrolytic count, flexible to alternate transistors (output devices aside, as there are lots of choices for most designs), easy to build (no SMD stuff), and believe it or not the reasoning for many of the parts selection quasi made (do not fall of your chair quasi).
From all the reading I had done prior to seeing quasi's design and since there are many excellent elements of the design well done in my opinion makes quasi's design exceptional. (quasi - you can send donations anytime for my glowing compliments to my numbered Swiss Bank Account )
If I use the 44-0-44V toroids for midrange, I will likley figure out a protection circuit to limit RMS output voltage to about 24-30V RMS. If I do so I should be able to run 6 modules off one 926/1127VA toroid and still have excellent headroom current wise. Each module is intended to have its own PSU board with a bridge on each side of the supply rail so PSU seperation should be very good. If that works well then I will build another set of 6 to change to bi-amp. I will then decide if tri-amping will be worth the move.
I intend to go seperate enclosures for each toroid and PSU module so I will have various options and flexibility, especially going the seperate enclosure for each toroid and each PSU module. This allows me flexibility for special suitations if I wish, or to experiment. This seperate enclosure approach avoids having to have one very large case to house 2/4/6 modules, the 44-0-44V toroid and PSU modules, and the other supporting circuits I wish to add in.
Am I itiching to build? YES. I still need to sort out case and heatsink parts or solutions mostly. If Supremetronic/Honson gets stock again of a 2U case with heatsinks already part of case, I will get one, was about $50.00, and build a stereo unit so I can give the design a listen. I am sort of committed in what parts I have bought to build more. I believe my instincts will be very happy once I have built the first one. I still have some caps to source/buy, but for the first one I will be ok and have various choices. I am also still trying to figure out where I can find a 12-18V relay that will fit quasi's board. Even for the 25-0-25V 225VA toroid I like to use an inrush circuit. I just need to sort how I can implement an inrush circuit in module dedicated manner.
I hope you had a good Long Weekend Shawn and the visiting family is enjoying their visit as well.
Regards,
John L. Males
Willowdale, Ontario
Canada
22 May 2006 23:27
My appologies, I must of been brain dead. I did not see your post for some reason prior to your pic post of heatsinks, toroids, and caps that I asked questions you already answered.
I am assuming you are using one cap per rail, hence 4 caps for two toroids.
I will likely first build a pair of quasi amps based on the 25-0-25V toroid I have. Once I have that down, I will decide if I will do two or 4 modules per the 44-0-44V toroids. I think with the 1127VA versions I will be ok for my listening needs.
Shawn, sorry you had panic over the VA ratings I mentioned. All you may have found was that you might of had some higher than 927VA. These were either 927VA or 1127VA. I am sure you would be more than happy to have 1127VA versions.
Gosh, what load are you thinking of driving to want to mono one module to a one 44-0-44V 927VA toroid? Planning to shake some foundations were you?
I like to go active crossover. I just feel the 44-0-44V would be overkill for tweeters for sure, and likley midranges as well. If that is case then I will only use two modules per 44-0-44V. These toroids were a great price for their specs. I just wish I could find 30-0-30V ones instead as that better suits my power requirements. I decided I had been waiting long enough for some toroids so I dove in with the same toroids you have.
Then like magic quasi's design came along. I had fretted about some other n-channel designs which all seemed to have various issues in terms of stability or part requirements. The beauty of quasi's design is it is simple (I like simple designs from a sonic perspective.), low in the electrolytic count, flexible to alternate transistors (output devices aside, as there are lots of choices for most designs), easy to build (no SMD stuff), and believe it or not the reasoning for many of the parts selection quasi made (do not fall of your chair quasi).
From all the reading I had done prior to seeing quasi's design and since there are many excellent elements of the design well done in my opinion makes quasi's design exceptional. (quasi - you can send donations anytime for my glowing compliments
to my numbered Swiss Bank Account )If I use the 44-0-44V toroids for midrange, I will likley figure out a protection circuit to limit RMS output voltage to about 24-30V RMS. If I do so I should be able to run 6 modules off one 926/1127VA toroid and still have excellent headroom current wise. Each module is intended to have its own PSU board with a bridge on each side of the supply rail so PSU seperation should be very good. If that works well then I will build another set of 6 to change to bi-amp. I will then decide if tri-amping will be worth the move.
I intend to go seperate enclosures for each toroid and PSU module so I will have various options and flexibility, especially going the seperate enclosure for each toroid and each PSU module. This allows me flexibility for special suitations if I wish, or to experiment. This seperate enclosure approach avoids having to have one very large case to house 2/4/6 modules, the 44-0-44V toroid and PSU modules, and the other supporting circuits I wish to add in.
Am I itiching to build? YES. I still need to sort out case and heatsink parts or solutions mostly. If Supremetronic/Honson gets stock again of a 2U case with heatsinks already part of case, I will get one, was about $50.00, and build a stereo unit so I can give the design a listen. I am sort of committed in what parts I have bought to build more. I believe my instincts will be very happy once I have built the first one. I still have some caps to source/buy, but for the first one I will be ok and have various choices. I am also still trying to figure out where I can find a 12-18V relay that will fit quasi's board. Even for the 25-0-25V 225VA toroid I like to use an inrush circuit. I just need to sort how I can implement an inrush circuit in module dedicated manner.
I hope you had a good Long Weekend Shawn and the visiting family is enjoying their visit as well.
Regards,
John L. Males
Willowdale, Ontario
Canada
22 May 2006 23:27
Hi Tomwaits,
the thyristor protection is fitted to two makes of amplifiers that I have. Crimson fit it around the VAS stage and use the triggered pair to disable the CCS of the LTP. I think they have set it up to monitor very high frequency and thus cuts input if the circuit oscillates or it gets fed with Hi Freq. Their implimentation never sees the zero voltage and so the thyristor circuit needs to be manually reset, mains off or a switch added to the trigger. Crimson also have conventional single slope current limiting to augment the thyristor.
Cyrus have fitted it to the Cyrus One amp and I think it is on my Cyrus Two as well.
Their implementation is completely different; monitor the output current through the Re and then disable the CCS of the LTP. Look up the Cyrus One (1) schematic on this forum.
I have never "heard" either of these limit and the only time I have been aware of a trigger was when feeding 50kHz into the Crimson at highish level.
the thyristor protection is fitted to two makes of amplifiers that I have. Crimson fit it around the VAS stage and use the triggered pair to disable the CCS of the LTP. I think they have set it up to monitor very high frequency and thus cuts input if the circuit oscillates or it gets fed with Hi Freq. Their implimentation never sees the zero voltage and so the thyristor circuit needs to be manually reset, mains off or a switch added to the trigger. Crimson also have conventional single slope current limiting to augment the thyristor.
Cyrus have fitted it to the Cyrus One amp and I think it is on my Cyrus Two as well.
Their implementation is completely different; monitor the output current through the Re and then disable the CCS of the LTP. Look up the Cyrus One (1) schematic on this forum.
I have never "heard" either of these limit and the only time I have been aware of a trigger was when feeding 50kHz into the Crimson at highish level.
anatech said:
Now two guys are speaking in a foreign language and one of 'em is a moderator! Don’t tease us
Please explain more of your experience. Abrupt comments are just that. Why not turn them into gold? Or do we have to beg for your knowlege? 
Get the can opener on yer key board and start typing, wild goose chases are not fun unless I am alowed to shoot!Just two cents worth,
Shawn.
Best option
Hi quasi ... i am back
Now i make my high power amp !
Well, what you consider the best option of speaker and amp:
speaker amp
1- 2x (400rms@4hom speaker) with 2x (440rms@4hom) amp
2- 2x (400rms@4hom speaker in paralel) with 1x (800rms @ 2hom) amp ?
3- 2x (400rms with double 4hom bobine) that totalize 800rms@ 4hom load with 1x 800rms @ 4hom amp ?
i wait your opinion to order the speaker.
Thanks ...and sorry for my bad english jejej
Hi quasi ... i am back
Now i make my high power amp !
Well, what you consider the best option of speaker and amp:
speaker amp
1- 2x (400rms@4hom speaker) with 2x (440rms@4hom) amp
2- 2x (400rms@4hom speaker in paralel) with 1x (800rms @ 2hom) amp ?
3- 2x (400rms with double 4hom bobine) that totalize 800rms@ 4hom load with 1x 800rms @ 4hom amp ?
i wait your opinion to order the speaker.
Thanks ...and sorry for my bad english jejej
Hi,
the Cyrus One power amp schematic is here.
http://www.tcaas.btinternet.co.uk/cyrus1pwr.gif
Q35 & Q37 form the thyristor. The ratio of R101 & R103 allow the trigger point to monitor output current level and to set the trigger point/output current.
Voltage across Re (R107A&B) triggers the pair on and then connects R67 to an effective ground.
This disables Q11 and stops the CCS pulling current through the LTP and so removes signal from the output.
Another poster pointed out that his amp still failed when output was shorted to ground. I cannot see if the thyristor protection was inadequate for this failure mode or if something else caused the failure problem.
A thyristor once triggered holds on until the current through it collapses to zero. i.e. it is latching.
With the Cyrus circuit it unlatches each time the current waveform crosses the ground reference. It appears that Cyrus have engineered in an automatic unlatching.
Anatech or others,
have I explained this correctly? or can you teach me more?
the Cyrus One power amp schematic is here.
http://www.tcaas.btinternet.co.uk/cyrus1pwr.gif
Q35 & Q37 form the thyristor. The ratio of R101 & R103 allow the trigger point to monitor output current level and to set the trigger point/output current.
Voltage across Re (R107A&B) triggers the pair on and then connects R67 to an effective ground.
This disables Q11 and stops the CCS pulling current through the LTP and so removes signal from the output.
Another poster pointed out that his amp still failed when output was shorted to ground. I cannot see if the thyristor protection was inadequate for this failure mode or if something else caused the failure problem.
A thyristor once triggered holds on until the current through it collapses to zero. i.e. it is latching.
With the Cyrus circuit it unlatches each time the current waveform crosses the ground reference. It appears that Cyrus have engineered in an automatic unlatching.
Anatech or others,
have I explained this correctly? or can you teach me more?
Hi Aggresiva
-
The amp should not be run in parallel so option 2 is out. I think option 3 means a dual voice coil speaker and this would work ok.
My preference is option 1. You can take advantage of slightly more efficiency from the larger cone area from 2 speakers.
If the amp is for musical instrument use, you should use the 10 FET boards.
Cheers
-
The amp should not be run in parallel so option 2 is out. I think option 3 means a dual voice coil speaker and this would work ok.
My preference is option 1. You can take advantage of slightly more efficiency from the larger cone area from 2 speakers.
If the amp is for musical instrument use, you should use the 10 FET boards.
Cheers