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Old 28th June 2002, 08:32 PM   #21
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Peranders,

the open loop figure would be quoted with a load, say 8 ohms.
60 dB of feedback around that would be .oo8 ohms.

The Alephs are Drain output, as are many well regarded
designs, so I think we can assume that it really works.

Remember, the output device doesn't care (or even know)
which of the three possible modes it is in, common Base/
Collector/Emitter or if you like Grid/Plate/Cathode etc.
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Old 28th June 2002, 09:45 PM   #22
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Hello
The 2SC2922 is an NPN.
The 2SA1216 is a PNP.
In the schematic they are opposite.


Torben
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Old 28th June 2002, 10:39 PM   #23
sonnya is offline sonnya  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally posted by peranders


What do you mean?
Openloop gain of at 1000. How much feedback do you suggest?

Wanted gain must be 20-30 dB. 60 dB feedback gives 80-100 dB open-loop gain. Anybody will no fix that. Oscillations or a slow amp.
To some level i will agree with you. But even with 500 times feedback... That's 53dB + 20dB ... open loop gain of 5000 times. You would end up at 250mOhm.... That is if you test your openloopgain without a load.
Here we get back to Nelson's reply ... In a amp you would be likely to test the openloop gain into a predefined load .. For opamp's that could be 10k, 1k, 100R. For a audio power amp that would be 16R,8R,4R or 2R.

For the Musical Fidelity Amps. I think no one would disagree that they sounded bad for their time. And there is a lot of people who have build Nelson's amps... And i do think that a lot of people like them.
The most of them are collector or drain output design.. Real SE AMP'S are also mostly Collector or drain output.

Basicly i find it a good thing that some ... let's say nonEE persons come up with a amp design...

I think we should all help them correct errors not redesign the topology...

What i want to say is that i do not think we should kill others idears just because we do not like them our self.

Sonny
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Old 3rd July 2002, 03:22 AM   #24
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Default dDshortt9

check my amp on common source thread with alaskanaudio errors like straws upon the surface flow those who would seek for pearls must dive below
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Old 3rd July 2002, 07:56 AM   #25
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Default My amp etc

dshort9,

I looked at your diagram, noted the R15 I think, 10 Ohms Re in the input stage, and R1, R2, 5 Ohms on the input stage output side.
Your gain of this stage will be like the ratio of the 5 Ohm to 10 Ohms equals 0.5.....
Also, check your input impedance. I think it will be too low for comfort.

Cheers, Jan Didden
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Old 3rd July 2002, 11:30 PM   #26
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Default Output impedance

Feedback creates the output impedance if, and only if the open loop gain is big enough !!!!.

In this case I'm sorry to say that the open loop gain i too small.

The result is that the total gain is stronly dependent on the load.

I simulated the design with BJT's, and the BW is ok. But the harmonic distortion is awfull.

There is also a small problem with DC offset due to different BE voltages of NPN and PNP transistors.

You need a gain sektion to make it fly.
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Old 4th July 2002, 12:02 AM   #27
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Lightbulb I think this can work ok

Hi try this.
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File Type: jpg amp.jpg (15.1 KB, 477 views)
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Old 6th July 2002, 07:30 PM   #28
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Jens, did you simulate this and if so how well does it work?

Dave
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Old 7th July 2002, 08:05 AM   #29
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Default Simulation

Hello

Well, the BW was not bad, but there was alot of harmonic distortion.

Also there is an issue with DC offset. The working current of the output is about 1 [A], But can be changed by changing the walues af the 10 [ohm] resistors in the input stage.

Do you have spice ?

Good luck
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Old 8th July 2002, 04:41 PM   #30
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Default My amp etc

Rens,

One remark if I may, the resistor R5 (47R) loads your signal current and limits the available open loop gain. You probably can't increase it because you'll increase the output stage standing current. However, if you replace R5 (and it's counterpart on the bottom side) with a current source of what is it, 13mA, your open loop gain goes way up, and THD goes way down. Since you only have two stages of gain, you probably won't have too much phaseshift around the loop so stability *shouldn't* be a problem. I still think you have a problem with bias stability though. What do you think?

Cheers, Jan Didden
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