Thank you DJK, this one simulates very good
But as you telling that the sound is not so good. I will forget it.
Can you please tell me one amplifier that you like, just to check the kind of sound you like?
I will explain, Pioneer have some characteristic that i do not like, this way, if you like some eighties Pioneer model, i have the chance to disagree related your musical taste... this way, will go on to hear that dynaco.
If you say that like class A JLH amplifiers, or AKSA, and some old Sony models.... i will erase Dynaco from my mind, as you have same "tuned" ears i have.
regards,
Carlos
But as you telling that the sound is not so good. I will forget it.
Can you please tell me one amplifier that you like, just to check the kind of sound you like?
I will explain, Pioneer have some characteristic that i do not like, this way, if you like some eighties Pioneer model, i have the chance to disagree related your musical taste... this way, will go on to hear that dynaco.
If you say that like class A JLH amplifiers, or AKSA, and some old Sony models.... i will erase Dynaco from my mind, as you have same "tuned" ears i have.
regards,
Carlos
I have a mint Dynaco 150 which is rack mounted that I don't need if you get your heart set on one. I built it myself when I bought the kit circa 1975. Personally I think it is crap. If you insist on vintage sand get a Marantz 240. 120 watts/ch. Good sound, lots of power, reliable. Curiously I have a spare one of these too. 
Dynaco 120
This is your friend over the States:\
Strangely you couldn't recognize the chassis of my JLH, I sent
you....It is the chassis of a Dynaco 120 that I bought already
burnt, on E-Bay...
The only thing I could save from it was exactly the CHASSIS,
it was big enough to acommodate the JLH...
Do you remember now?
It was a BAD,BAD,BAD amplifier, and it was one of the first
atempts of Dynaco to SS.....
Dynaco era comigo, bicho....
This is your friend over the States:\
Strangely you couldn't recognize the chassis of my JLH, I sent
you....It is the chassis of a Dynaco 120 that I bought already
burnt, on E-Bay...
The only thing I could save from it was exactly the CHASSIS,
it was big enough to acommodate the JLH...
Do you remember now?
It was a BAD,BAD,BAD amplifier, and it was one of the first
atempts of Dynaco to SS.....
Dynaco era comigo, bicho....
Ahahaha Mat, so you had my answer!, thank you to Canadien
The Canadien that told the amplifier is a crap!....hehehe
But Mat!... talking to you everyday.... so near the answer (e falando contido todos os dias, a resposta logo aqui perto)
and i open that question to all forum.... and the answer so near!
Good Mat... could not recognize your Dynaco with JLH over it.
That was great!
Beautifull speaker yours, friend from Canada.
regards,
Carlos
The Canadien that told the amplifier is a crap!....hehehe
But Mat!... talking to you everyday.... so near the answer (e falando contido todos os dias, a resposta logo aqui perto)
and i open that question to all forum.... and the answer so near!
Good Mat... could not recognize your Dynaco with JLH over it.
That was great!
Beautifull speaker yours, friend from Canada.
regards,
Carlos
Re: Ahahaha Mat, so you had my answer!, thank you to Canadien
Thank you for the compliment Carlos! Here are pictures of my new DIY speakers. They are sounding very good now as the crossover is nearly dialled in and the drivers are breaking in.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40985
destroyer X said:
Thank you for the compliment Carlos! Here are pictures of my new DIY speakers. They are sounding very good now as the crossover is nearly dialled in and the drivers are breaking in.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40985
Rcavitim, hehe, arrested inside glass tubes, passion is that way, a prison!
I have hair to, and 55 years my friend...the picture is not more than 10 monthes old.....the hair is more white...it is full of gel to fix the hair in place... Gel turn it dark...interesting effect.... will use gel other place to see, if the almost dead one,will return to life without Viagra or Cialis...Ahahahaha...not difficult to capture the meaning...hehe.
Will now see your speakers...they look very good.
Could see 150 dynaco schematics, this one is really more modern, i can sniff the sound will produce with precision... do not need to assemble this one.
bye
Carlos
I have hair to, and 55 years my friend...the picture is not more than 10 monthes old.....the hair is more white...it is full of gel to fix the hair in place... Gel turn it dark...interesting effect.... will use gel other place to see, if the almost dead one,will return to life without Viagra or Cialis...Ahahahaha...not difficult to capture the meaning...hehe.
Will now see your speakers...they look very good.
Could see 150 dynaco schematics, this one is really more modern, i can sniff the sound will produce with precision... do not need to assemble this one.
bye
Carlos
The Dyna 120 is a waste of time. It was made too early, by engineers who did not know transistor design very well. Even the Dyna designer who I talked to in 1965 told me to stick to tubes.
Folks, you must understand, marketing pressures like: 'Perfect sound forever', 'No output transformer', etc, force companies to change their designs, sometimes before the new technology has caught up.
I did use a Dyna 120 as a motor drive amp, but that is another story. Sorry, but the Dyna 120 is only good for driving motors, not loudspeakers.
Folks, you must understand, marketing pressures like: 'Perfect sound forever', 'No output transformer', etc, force companies to change their designs, sometimes before the new technology has caught up.
I did use a Dyna 120 as a motor drive amp, but that is another story. Sorry, but the Dyna 120 is only good for driving motors, not loudspeakers.
As a boy in hogh school I built both the PAT 4 and ST 120 and used them in my bedroom system. Later on when I was a Senior in high school I saved my money and sold both Dynacos and bought a Phase Linear 400, also a crappy amp by todays standards!
I can't think of any sonic qualitues that are to do with the ST 120.... at all, even back on 1971 when I built it. In fact for a "less Sonic Quality" experience get a PAT 4 preamp to go with it. These were meant to be budget concious pieces even back then.
The later Dynaco amps particuluarly the ST 400 are actually still quite good today if you can find a working one. The ST 400 makes a good chassis for a small Class A power amp too!!
Mark
I can't think of any sonic qualitues that are to do with the ST 120.... at all, even back on 1971 when I built it. In fact for a "less Sonic Quality" experience get a PAT 4 preamp to go with it. These were meant to be budget concious pieces even back then.
The later Dynaco amps particuluarly the ST 400 are actually still quite good today if you can find a working one. The ST 400 makes a good chassis for a small Class A power amp too!!
Mark
John Curl and high bias, thank you.
I already realise that, because all the negative informs i had, but seems confused to me, because simulated very good!
Simulators cannot inform how some amplifier sounds, but can give us some idea related to square wave response, and those informs are eloquent by itselves.
Amplifier to drive a motor is something alike to use its heavy chassis to keep the door openned in a windy day!....just to hold it openned to avoid slam.... terrible amplifier!
The Dynaco 150 is completely different, i supposed can be more usefull than to drive motors or hold doors.
I will put some small piece of the schematic, to avoid problems with the long arm of the law...you can see, that it is using some technology not too old.
regards,
Carlos
I already realise that, because all the negative informs i had, but seems confused to me, because simulated very good!
Simulators cannot inform how some amplifier sounds, but can give us some idea related to square wave response, and those informs are eloquent by itselves.
Amplifier to drive a motor is something alike to use its heavy chassis to keep the door openned in a windy day!....just to hold it openned to avoid slam.... terrible amplifier!
The Dynaco 150 is completely different, i supposed can be more usefull than to drive motors or hold doors.
I will put some small piece of the schematic, to avoid problems with the long arm of the law...you can see, that it is using some technology not too old.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Carlos
With every thread you post there is always something like this:
I have hair to, and 55 years my friend...the picture is not more than 10 monthes old.....the hair is more white...it is full of gel to fix the hair in place... Gel turn it dark...interesting effect.... will use gel other place to see, if the almost dead one,will return to life without Viagra or Cialis...Ahahahaha...not difficult to capture the meaning...hehe.
Will now see your speakers...they look very good.
Could see 150 dynaco schematics, this one is really more modern, i can sniff the sound will produce with precision... do not need to assemble this one.
Please stick to the subject.
To answer your question.. Early Dynaco amplifiers were junk but do make nice boat anchors.
Sonically I would look for a "Son of Ampzilla", SAE 2400, or a Marantz M240-M250. These are some of the better sounding amplifiers out there that would fit most peoples toy budget.
With every thread you post there is always something like this:
I have hair to, and 55 years my friend...the picture is not more than 10 monthes old.....the hair is more white...it is full of gel to fix the hair in place... Gel turn it dark...interesting effect.... will use gel other place to see, if the almost dead one,will return to life without Viagra or Cialis...Ahahahaha...not difficult to capture the meaning...hehe.
Will now see your speakers...they look very good.
Could see 150 dynaco schematics, this one is really more modern, i can sniff the sound will produce with precision... do not need to assemble this one.
Please stick to the subject.
To answer your question.. Early Dynaco amplifiers were junk but do make nice boat anchors.
Sonically I would look for a "Son of Ampzilla", SAE 2400, or a Marantz M240-M250. These are some of the better sounding amplifiers out there that would fit most peoples toy budget.
"Could see 150 dynaco schematics, this one is really more modern, i can sniff the sound will produce with precision... do not need to assemble this one."
Hey Carlos, notice how if you were to remove Q5 and replace with a bootstrap cap the basic topolgy would look just like an AKSA?
I guess you don't need one of those, do you?
Hey Carlos, notice how if you were to remove Q5 and replace with a bootstrap cap the basic topolgy would look just like an AKSA?
I guess you don't need one of those, do you?
Hey destroyer X. I thought somebody had to take on the crap shooters.
It was early in the SS world, but too early? What's that mean 
Enough criticism. The 120 was like the Ford Model T - cheap, quite good quality [for the time] and came in any colour you wanted as long as it was black. If you want to get rid of you 120 I will be glad to take it off your hands for scrap prices. I currently have 3 which I use to power my surround speakers [sound as good as the Carver AV-405 I cycled out for repairs]. I wouldn't mind rebuilding one to have as a spare - you know, they aren't that reliable
Well sure there are better amps and the Stereo 150 was one of them. The 120 was a 1st generation SS amp and the 150 a 2nd generation. Why not compare it to the 4th gen ST-416?
WOW! After 30+ years mine is still going strong with only a few [easy & cheap] repairs while much more expensive and newer amps have fallen by the wayside including a Carver AV-705 & a McIntosh MC7270. They were awesome amps but ...
Yep. But who really cares! That why you got it for a crap price!
Actually the heatsinks are large given the amount of heat they have to dissipate. The supply is a single 72V regulated supply with a 3300mfd cap; the first regulated power supply found in a solid state amp and very adequate. The thing can and does sustain 60WRMS/channel into 8ohms. That's loud enough even with inefficient speakers.
Well DUH
It was early in the SS world, but too early? What's that mean If you are suggesting they were poorly qualified engineers, David Hafler led the design of all products at Dyna and Ed Laurent was the lead engineer on the 120, both well respected in the industry. Hafler recruited Laurent in 1954 from Brociner Electronics to found Dyna. While at Brociner he had designed a novel single-tube driver circuit still in use today. If you meant that nobody understood semiconductors then that is also crap. The only comment that may fit is that semis were not great quality back then.
The Dynaco Stereo 120 wasn't introduced until 1966. Sure they would have told you that in 1965
Enough criticism. The 120 was like the Ford Model T - cheap, quite good quality [for the time] and came in any colour you wanted as long as it was black. If you want to get rid of you 120 I will be glad to take it off your hands for scrap prices. I currently have 3 which I use to power my surround speakers [sound as good as the Carver AV-405 I cycled out for repairs]. I wouldn't mind rebuilding one to have as a spare - you know, they aren't that reliable
"The supply is a single 72V regulated supply "
I'm sure you love your ST120 but you are dead wrong about a few things.
The ST120 uses the 2N3772 which has a Vceo of 60V, that's why they set the supply voltage to that number.
If you look at the schematic you will see that the zener is 58V.
http://home.insightbb.com/~dunn.greg/ST120/schem1.jpg
The McIntosh MC250 was available in the same time frame, and hardly any more money (assembled) than the Dyna, had a much better design, sounded better, was more reliable, had better heatsinks, etc.
You could have bought a Crown D150 without the faceplate for $10 more than the assembled ST120
You could have bought an Harman Kardon Citation 12 in kit form.
As a dealer and authorized service center for all the above I must say the ST120 broke the most often (followed closely by the Crown, but those often saw heavy PA use) and the ST120 also came in first for the worst sound (again, the Crown ran a close second).
I'm sure you love your ST120 but you are dead wrong about a few things.
The ST120 uses the 2N3772 which has a Vceo of 60V, that's why they set the supply voltage to that number.
If you look at the schematic you will see that the zener is 58V.
http://home.insightbb.com/~dunn.greg/ST120/schem1.jpg
The McIntosh MC250 was available in the same time frame, and hardly any more money (assembled) than the Dyna, had a much better design, sounded better, was more reliable, had better heatsinks, etc.
You could have bought a Crown D150 without the faceplate for $10 more than the assembled ST120
You could have bought an Harman Kardon Citation 12 in kit form.
As a dealer and authorized service center for all the above I must say the ST120 broke the most often (followed closely by the Crown, but those often saw heavy PA use) and the ST120 also came in first for the worst sound (again, the Crown ran a close second).
I dont understand why were even discussing this piece of junk to be frank and honest!
A quick search of Ebay turns up quite a few amps for dirt cheap that would be MUCH better.
there are several models of Adcom, Hafler, Soundcraftsmen, that can be had for about $100.00 that sound much much better and have more power and are more reliable then a ST-120.
Heck even one of those all in one kit amps would be better!
I agree with John Curl! a ST-120 is not good for audio! Yuck!
That is just my .02 cents worth!
Zero
A quick search of Ebay turns up quite a few amps for dirt cheap that would be MUCH better.
there are several models of Adcom, Hafler, Soundcraftsmen, that can be had for about $100.00 that sound much much better and have more power and are more reliable then a ST-120.
Heck even one of those all in one kit amps would be better!
I agree with John Curl! a ST-120 is not good for audio! Yuck!
That is just my .02 cents worth!
Zero
Hi dlk,
First of all I don't love the Dynaco Stereo 120 and I won't get caught up in a discussion over what does and doesn't sound better. That is very subjective and somewhat esoteric. The old Dyna products have proven to be reasonable value for my money. Incidently, my offer still stands if destroyer X wants to clear it out at scrap prices.
My remarks simply pointed out that unfair blanket statements and countered inaccuracies. Your latest statement is also innacurate. Maybe you should look at the schematics again (see power supply schematic:
http://home.insightbb.com/~dunn.greg/ST120/schem1.jpg
and service notes:
http://home.insightbb.com/~dunn.greg/ST120/serv1.jpg).
The power supply output voltage is regulated at 72V not at 58V as you state, and is applied across the output pair, not the individual transistors, for a total breakover voltage of 120V, well below what the supply can deliver. That's not to imply I haven't seen shorted outputs but they were usually caused by abuse or poor wiring (internal or speaker) The 58V zener, D10, is used to provide a reference potential on the emmiter of Q7, the voltage divider at the base provides the comparison voltage. This zener will usually blows in older amps when the 50mfd C10 fails. The weakest parts in my experience are the decoupling cap on the input and the driver transistor pair in the before they did the TIP mod change. A full PC board capacitor replacement and TIP mod can breath new life into the Stereo 120.
The Citation 12 was a tube amp and everybody knew in the 70's that tubes were out! Neither the Crown nor McIntosh (US$429) were options for me in the early 70's as they were more like double the kit price (US$209), same as most others in their class. Neither was available for listening in my locale and the risk of purchasing something I couldn't hear plus shipping costs made them unreasonable for purchase in my book. Even if I were to consider the McIntosh, this is what I would have had available to make my decision:
Amp Spec Comparison
It wasn't a difficult choice to make not having had the luxury of 20-20 hindsight.
First of all I don't love the Dynaco Stereo 120 and I won't get caught up in a discussion over what does and doesn't sound better. That is very subjective and somewhat esoteric. The old Dyna products have proven to be reasonable value for my money. Incidently, my offer still stands if destroyer X wants to clear it out at scrap prices.
My remarks simply pointed out that unfair blanket statements and countered inaccuracies. Your latest statement is also innacurate. Maybe you should look at the schematics again (see power supply schematic:
http://home.insightbb.com/~dunn.greg/ST120/schem1.jpg
and service notes:
http://home.insightbb.com/~dunn.greg/ST120/serv1.jpg).
The power supply output voltage is regulated at 72V not at 58V as you state, and is applied across the output pair, not the individual transistors, for a total breakover voltage of 120V, well below what the supply can deliver. That's not to imply I haven't seen shorted outputs but they were usually caused by abuse or poor wiring (internal or speaker) The 58V zener, D10, is used to provide a reference potential on the emmiter of Q7, the voltage divider at the base provides the comparison voltage. This zener will usually blows in older amps when the 50mfd C10 fails. The weakest parts in my experience are the decoupling cap on the input and the driver transistor pair in the before they did the TIP mod change. A full PC board capacitor replacement and TIP mod can breath new life into the Stereo 120.
The Citation 12 was a tube amp and everybody knew in the 70's that tubes were out! Neither the Crown nor McIntosh (US$429) were options for me in the early 70's as they were more like double the kit price (US$209), same as most others in their class. Neither was available for listening in my locale and the risk of purchasing something I couldn't hear plus shipping costs made them unreasonable for purchase in my book. Even if I were to consider the McIntosh, this is what I would have had available to make my decision:
Amp Spec Comparison
It wasn't a difficult choice to make not having had the luxury of 20-20 hindsight.
Thank you all, in special bezzonie that contribute a lot
Now i have a good idea related the equipment, and many opinions too that will let me make some reflections.
The 120 uses an electrolitic condenser in the output.... something that can be considered terrible, but JLH uses too and sound good with the condenser in place.
I perceived similarities between dynaco 150 and Aksa too.
I like the electrolitic in the output, wonderfull protection against burned transistors, the condenser will avoid speaker go on fire as Dc will not pass.
I am searching some old amplifiers, i want to construct one bad reference and one good reference related to old transistor amplifiers....i want to check, hearing, the comparison between them and the last designs...i have the idea of the result, just will have sure about that subject.
regards,
Carlos
Now i have a good idea related the equipment, and many opinions too that will let me make some reflections.
The 120 uses an electrolitic condenser in the output.... something that can be considered terrible, but JLH uses too and sound good with the condenser in place.
I perceived similarities between dynaco 150 and Aksa too.
I like the electrolitic in the output, wonderfull protection against burned transistors, the condenser will avoid speaker go on fire as Dc will not pass.
I am searching some old amplifiers, i want to construct one bad reference and one good reference related to old transistor amplifiers....i want to check, hearing, the comparison between them and the last designs...i have the idea of the result, just will have sure about that subject.
regards,
Carlos
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