"What's your reasoning?" and not "What's your belief?". - diyAudio
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Old 29th September 2004, 08:11 PM   #1
mikeks is offline mikeks  United Kingdom
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Post "What's your reasoning?" and not "What's your belief?".

The quote above is taken from:

http://diyaudio.com/forums/showthrea...068#post482068

....and it really sums up (or should!) the raison d'etre of a discussion forum such as this.

Further thoughts or objections to the above are welcome....
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Old 30th September 2004, 04:22 AM   #2
andy_c is offline andy_c  United States
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Mike, I'd agree assuming the discussion is intended to be technical in nature in the first place. But there are lots of folks having a lot of fun building stuff (some of it really amazing stuff!) who aren't familiar with the technical issues at all, and for them the hard core technical aspects just aren't of interest. So to say that the nitty gritty technical issues are the core of the forum excludes a large number of people, many of whom are key contributors, and without whom the forum can't succeed. I don't think that's what you meant, but because it could be construed that way, I thought I'd mention it.

But technical discussions can become fruitless when blind faith is invoked as an argument (really a non-argument). That causes the discussion to either stall or just go around in circles. One of the things I like very much about engineering is the abstract nature of the ideas involved. It's not like politics or religion, where the issues can have deep emotional implications. In the ideal case, engineering ideas can (or at least should) be discussed completely dispassionately. Having emotional investment in an idea or collection of ideas only prevents people from considering ideas outside that framework. And that can only hurt.

In the audio realm, I've noticed there are certain people who have brought up certain key ideas that were controversial at the time, and they challenge the ability of people to discuss the ideas in a dispassionate way. Take Otala for instance. He brought up some new, controversial ideas about TIM back in the '70s. It turns out there were some minor errors in what he did, but the things he was theorizing about, the basic concepts were real and measurable. This seemed to bring about a kind of religious war, with people on the objectivist side saying "he was a so-and-so and completely wrong" and people on the subjectivist side embracing everything he said - including the things that were in error. And even if they were in error, so what? He's a human being like anybody else. None of the people who were involved in any of the vicious attacks on him back then are here in this forum now, so there's no need for anyone to become defensive about it. They're just abstract ideas fer cryin' out loud. Nobody kicked anybody's dog.
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Old 30th September 2004, 07:30 AM   #3
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Default Mikek is extraordinary related the intelligence, not only Maths, he is clever

And i think more than half forum together...this man is gênius...and he use to make some fun sadic funny game with us all the time.

Take a look his signature:

A formely artist called Mikeks...think about that title for on deep knowledge man, top hi calculator living machine.

The art of controversy i could capture, he is clever and he is just pushing the lines and the dolls are jumping alike a dolls theather.

I use to joke this way with my Spanish Beauty...she is brave and furious...and i now how to move her mood the way i want....when she talked too much or start some conversation i do not like ... i order her to shut her mouth.... easy...she start to scream and i runned out from the subjetc....laughing about my "power" to control an manipulate the pretty woman mood....and certain people never perceive the trick...i told her.....will show you who is the dominant here....Me Tarzan , You Jane!......and shut your mouth now!.... and she turns nervous again.....when discovered the week point, just put the finger on it.

The hability with Mathematics, and the "maybe sadic" intention, makes him wonderfull artist of controversy....take a look... he entered and stablish some confusion..... and with class, and with good words, with know how...no one can touch him...this is a technological discussion.... covered under this fantasy he kick our a---- easy and when he want.

More than feel bad with his superiority....much more clever than i am, i respect very much his competence related manipulate people.... he is better Psychologist than Enginneer, but he did not realise that already.

See.... he create the thread to "fish" the "fishes"......this is alike you enter in one gimnastic academy and ask loud an clear.. the ones are gay here shut your mouth...this is so shocking that no one will open the mouth... and will confirm...thats Mike...Genius... sorry for us...he will make with us what he wants.... but i am learning his tricks...i have a deep positive impression related his capacities...his brain is magnificent, despite someone can understand that is beeing used, sometimes, for not so good purposes.

In my country we call that "botar pilha".....this means..."putt batteries" in someone.... alike one toy, when you put new fresh batteries, the toy start to move and make their noise.... he use to put batteries in some guys...i am sure he is falling from the chair laughing with the people giving attention to his tricks.

Long life and healthy to you Mikeks, and my deep and sincere congratulations related your capacities...well directioned will be magnificent job to manking....but unfortunattelly i am sure you are not happy...no one with your intelligence can be happy.... it is impossible seeing clearly the world dirty...be happy, only possible for common people alike me...having bad life, third world politics making dirty all the time, and i laughing because so stupid to perceive they are ------- me all the time... alike that animal that eat only smelling meat...the rest of other dead animals, having one smilling expression in its face.

This way you get Hugh, and i like hugh very much...i dislike that..could not see that good man moving as result you push him to that...this way..... the revenge is tell people your trick...bôooooo! to you.

you damned...hehe...very intelligent....too much Mikeks!

regards,

Carlos
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Old 30th September 2004, 08:38 AM   #4
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My sarcasm alarm has just shaken itself off my ceiling.
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Old 30th September 2004, 08:39 AM   #5
mikeks is offline mikeks  United Kingdom
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Actually Carlos, i suspect i am of average stupidity.....no greater or less than 99.999999999999% of the folk on this forum

...Indeed, it is precisely because i am not particularly intelligent that i have a very strong affinity for material developed from intuitive first principals...

It is only from the later that demonstrably sound advanced ideas may be developed....in my experiance...

I believe passionately that the proponents of a given theory should from the outset be able to expound on it's tenets in lay language to anyone who may care to listen, without invoking advanced mathematics....

In otherwords, the material should be at their fingertips, they should be fluent in their chosen discipline, and almost literally feel the later in their fundament....

This is why i object strongly to 'experts' who give demonstrably incorrect advice to enthusiasts on the grounds that their 'experiance' and reputation is necessary and sufficient to justify blind faith in their panaceas.
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Old 30th September 2004, 08:46 AM   #6
mikeks is offline mikeks  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by traderbam
My sarcasm alarm has just shaken itself off my ceiling.
Mine exploded in protest...
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Old 30th September 2004, 11:26 AM   #7
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Default Yeahhh!.... you may be rigth

This way, never mind and be happy!

Intuitive is human....not problem, be happy.

regards,

Carlos
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Old 30th September 2004, 11:33 AM   #8
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Default My vision of Mikeks, of course some intuitive and non real

Some human ideas....of course not precise.

regards,

Carlos
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Old 30th September 2004, 06:19 PM   #9
mikeks is offline mikeks  United Kingdom
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Default Re: My vision of Mikeks, of course some intuitive and non real

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Old 30th September 2004, 09:58 PM   #10
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Mike
Welcome to the 21st century. When we watch the news the reporters ask "How do you feel about XX" not, "What do you think about XX". They're not the same. Both can be valid, but they're not the same.

Myself, I don't get to worked up about any of this. It ain't worth the effort, it's just a hobby for most and hobbies are supposed to be fun, relaxing and enjoyable.

I love seeing the math on the site. One can not argue with the numbers but I also believe that there is much that we still don't know. Much that the math has yet to address. We knew for a long time that the earth was flat and that the sun went around the earth. Galileo spent a long time under house arrest for that last one.

I design a lot of pro/studio gear, mainly mic-pre's. One client may want a hard, edgy, in your face sound and the next client wants the sound of an old API type iron transformer. Does this make one design "wrong" and one "correct?" Granted, the missions of hi-end and studio gear are not the same but my only concern is if the client is happy.

Mike
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