What makes an amplifier "bright", "warm", or "neutral"? - Page 5 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th December 2009, 08:02 PM   #41
diyAudio Member
 
thermal runaway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: West Mids , UK
The interaction of the amp with speakers is the critical issue IMHO. My experience is that multi way speakers with complex x overs that are not well designed will harsh out the sound. Probably due to inductance reaction in the amp. Again , an amp that is sensitive to load due to it's design will impart harshness or brittleness. Whether a sensitive amp with easy load speakers or a tolerant amp with speakers having a compromised x over is worse is another question. Then of course there is the prickly issue of dirty digital sound from CD , all jittery and fragmented from rubbish clocks and DAC's , that will defo sound harsh. What I do know is the Tannoys I'm using now with their simple 2 way configuration and very carefully designed x over , driven by my Crown DC300A is one of the smoothest , most detailed and ambient sounding systems I've ever heard. Thats before I've upgraded the clock and DAC in my Denon CD too !!
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2009, 08:52 PM   #42
wahab is offline wahab  Algeria
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: algeria/france
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermal runaway View Post
The interaction of the amp with speakers is the critical issue IMHO. My experience is that multi way speakers with complex x overs that are not well designed will harsh out the sound. Probably due to inductance reaction in the amp. Again , an amp that is sensitive to load due to it's design will impart harshness or brittleness. Whether a sensitive amp with easy load speakers or a tolerant amp with speakers having a compromised x over is worse is another question.
agree with you, that s why i suggested that the amps under
comparison must be matched for the load they are driving..
indeed, the load will shape the harmonics response curve of
the amps...must say that i also adopted two way speakers,
i.e QUESTED H108...i let a separate "boombox" reproduce the
extreme low, using a three channel amp..
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2009, 01:02 AM   #43
glennb is offline glennb  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Melbourne
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee View Post
Sheetrock is better known as Plasterboard (in the UK), or Drywall in the US.
And Gyprock or Plasterboard in Australia. Gyprock : Products . Very commonly used for interior wall lining in houses.
__________________
Glenn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2009, 03:50 AM   #44
diyAudio Member
 
Miles Prower's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Blog Entries: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Hoek View Post
Stinking MOSFETs
I hate them too, man.

Ren
I used to think so too. However, every bad sounding MOSFET amp I heard used that same OTP, complimentary finals, Class AB topology originated for BJTs. The Big Box manufacturers like that since no OPT is cheaper than the cheapest OPT. (And they have the marketing budget to convince you that that "MOSFET sound" is something "cool", and not what it is: a sonic compromise of towering porportions.)

If you're going to use MOSFETs, then stick with one type or the other, N-Channel or P-Channel, but not both in the same circuit. Keep them out of Class AB since the x-over behaviour is a good deal nastier than that of BJTs. Do that and they'll sound good.

"Which component, components, or circuits make an amplifier "bright", "warm", or "neutral"?"

That's a big "that depends". However:

h2 -- makes for a "warm" sound in moderation. Excessive tends to a "dark" sound. h2 and even harmonic distortion is a property of unbalanced topologies. Even order harmonics lead to asymmetric distortion of waveforms.

h3 -- makes for a "bright" sound. Excessive tends to be overly "aggressive", or "shrill". Balanced topologies largely null out h2 and higher even order harmonics. Odd order harmonics lead to symmetric waveform distortion.
__________________
There are no foxes in atheistholes
www.dolphin-hsl.com

Last edited by Miles Prower; 10th December 2009 at 03:56 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2009, 04:38 AM   #45
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
In the interests of proper terminology, it's complementary when talking about silicon devices.

Otherwise you would have transistors complimenting you on your wardrobe or something
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2009, 04:47 AM   #46
shaan is offline shaan  India
diyAudio Member
 
shaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Near the Ganges
What makes it Bright, Warm or Neutral?

The Topology of course, considering the load is matched to the amp.

My observations is:-

Class AB, B - Bright.

Class A SE - Warm.

Class A PP - Neutral.

Class D PP - Dunno, never heard one.
Class D SE - Is there one?
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
The PeeCeeBee Thread
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2009, 10:20 AM   #47
nikwal is offline nikwal  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
As always, if the component is used in a correct way it shouldnt be a much of a problem. It's no coincidence I use bipolar junction transistors as voltage amplification stage and hex-field effect transistor as output. A very good designer could probably make it sound as he want through construction. Imho you cant just say mosfets sound metallic. And furthermore about 50% of the people that hear the "metallic" or "bright" amp might like it.. So yes, just keep on searching for the sound you like. .
__________________
http://dsl.mine.nu (very enironmental friendly 5watt damn small linux server made from a compaq t1010 terminal)..
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2009, 05:51 PM   #48
Gordy is offline Gordy  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post
...it's complementary

I walked into a bar with my newly designed super-cables and put them on the bar top while surveying the drinks on offer…

“They look like really nice cables, I bet they sound great”, someone said.

I looked around but I was alone.

Then the bar tender came in. I told him that someone had mentioned how nice my cables are, and he said…

“Sir, that’ll be the complimentary nuts!!!”



…………………………………………………………………………………..

(Sorry. Gordy hangs his head in shame and slinks off back to the shadows… )
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2009, 09:17 PM   #49
glennb is offline glennb  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Melbourne
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnS View Post
Which component, components, or circuits make an amplifier "bright", "warm", or "neutral"?
None in particular, but I can suggest

"Bright" = rising frequency response at top end
"warm" = falling frequency response
"neutral" = flat frequency response (ahhhhhhhh, just right)
__________________
Glenn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2009, 11:18 PM   #50
Gordy is offline Gordy  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnS View Post
Which component, components, or circuits make an amplifier "bright", "warm", or "neutral"?
Well JohnS, your question was posed many years back (...when even Gordy felt reasonably young, and still on the best side of 40...), so I don't know if you are still around to hear the answers or not. Anyway here it is:

"bright": it actually depends on the overall system, the local listening environment, the input, and the listener's psychoacoustic system, bias, and intellect.

"warm": it actually depends on the overall system, the local listening environment, the input, and the listener's psychoacoustic system, bias, and intellect.

"neutral": it actually depends on the overall system, the local listening environment, the input, and the listener's psychoacoustic system, bias, and intellect.


...OK, OK, it's just an opinion.


(Or is it?)


(Maybe it really is the cables?)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What Does Fostex "Rated Input" and "Music Power" mark02131 Full Range 5 13th October 2012 05:18 AM
What makes Nichicon "muse"/"for audio" caps different ? percy Parts 2 3rd October 2009 05:53 PM
Fostex "rated input" and "music power" hugz Full Range 12 16th March 2006 04:33 PM
Some final pics of "Stacks" revisited and "Askew" with stand Andy G Multi-Way 2 3rd February 2005 06:07 AM
Anyone used Scan-Speak's "Flow Resistors" or "Aperiodic Vents"? Ignite Multi-Way 3 18th November 2001 08:42 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:28 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2