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Old 4th August 2004, 05:00 PM   #11
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Default Schematics

The schematics for the 1000W Kicker amp is in the automotive section at www.schematicsforfree.mattsoft.net. Maybe that will give you some ideas.
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Old 4th August 2004, 06:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: car amps

Quote:
Originally posted by Ewok_Poacher
I forgot to adress the search comment --
I searched for a couple days before posting and couldnt find much information on big car audio amps. I found alot of class a amps for home , concert or D.J. use but very little for car audio.

If you know someplace that I have overlooked with more car audio info please fill me in, I am not real bright you have to work with me.javascript:smilie(':)')
smile

Oh my, 400W Class A in a car... may I suggest Class AB instead.

The big difference between home and car is that an auto charging system makes ~14V and most big amps need transformers with >30V secondaries. So, pick your big amp, and get a DC-DC converter that can bring your electrical system up to the required voltage.

One crazy idea that occured to me while sitting in a cafe last year was to get the electrical system out of a big wattage generator and actually hook it up to your crankshaft. Then use this power to drive everything. Since most auto engines run more quietly than a gennie, and your system makes much more sound, there is clear advantage over the usual mods. you could use massive "audiophile" monoblocks and get huge style points. Okay... maybe this one is too crazy.

:)ensen.
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Old 4th August 2004, 10:34 PM   #13
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1000W in the car


I guess you don't mean to supply this with 14V car voltage!!!

I'm arraid that even if you get something like this, sit in your car, turn on the amp, turn the volume to max, play your favourite hard-rock song - will your car engine start?????

change your battery-works???
if not use a nuclear engine to your car

sorry for joking
I know your pain
I like loundess too but keep it within sensible limits
cheers!!!
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Old 5th August 2004, 12:21 AM   #14
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To be honest, the car engine has plenty of power but the limiting device in the car electrical system is the alternator...and the physical size of the wire. Wire size is a fuction of current not voltage or power. Even if you could generate enough current, using multiple alternators, you would have to rig up some sort of current sharing configuration less you burn out the rectifiers in one or more alternators. They make high output alternators at 100A or more, but if you need 150A to 200A, you may need to install a copper bus through your car to carry it.
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Old 5th August 2004, 12:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
To be honest, the car engine has plenty of power but the limiting device in the car electrical system is the alternator...and the physical size of the wire. Wire size is a fuction of current not voltage or power. Even if you could generate enough current, using multiple alternators, you would have to rig up some sort of current sharing configuration less you burn out the rectifiers in one or more alternators. They make high output alternators at 100A or more, but if you need 150A to 200A, you may need to install a copper bus through your car to carry it.
well, nice to know something more about how car works
I'm not in that business...
I just found the idea bizzare and shared my fears
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Old 5th August 2004, 01:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
The schematics for the 1000W Kicker amp is in the automotive section at www.schematicsforfree.mattsoft.net. Maybe that will give you some ideas.
Where is it? All I can see in the automotive/circuits/audio is 4 pdf file and none is Kicker.
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Old 5th August 2004, 02:50 AM   #17
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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1000Wrms amplifiers doesnt draw 1000W continuously when listening to music [not SPL tones!!!] at full power but draw 2000W for brief periods of time during bass transients and about 500W average over time in the worst case

To integrate these current transients into a more easy to handle DC-like current waveform, energy storage capacitors are required, placed on the 12V very close to the amplifier or *preferably* connected after the DC-DC converter inside the amplifier

My recent experience shows that a 1.2 farad 0.002 ohm capacitor and three 56Ah batteries are enough to show a system composed by 1x1000W + 2x270W + 4x80W amplifiers at almost full power for an hour or so with engine stopped [provided batteries are fully charged before starting and inmediately recharged after ending to prevent sulfatation]

Additionally, provided enough air flow through the heat sinks of the amplifiers, adequate power handling of the speakers and a 230V to 14.4V 72A external power supply [I've designed and built my own prototype of that], the system may be shown continuously at full power for 6 or more hours [plus batteries get fully charged]

The hardest part may be to design and build an SMPS capable of handling 2KW transients and 500W continuous with low EMI, decent efficiency and low voltage ripple and sagging on the output during transients [regulated output or very low leakage inductances are advidsed to prevent excessive sagging]. Those SMPS found on commercial amplifiers usually end using as much PCB space and as much transistors as the power amplifier circuit itself, and some have similar complexity
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Old 5th August 2004, 03:15 AM   #18
rkc7 is offline rkc7  United States
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I apologize if my post was a "flame," I tried to imply that if this high power had a reason, ie not just to be blasted around the neighborhood, then go for it. Personally I have no experience building any amps, but I'll try to give some help this time. This article describes a power supply meant for car audio amps... which may help:

http://sound.westhost.com/project89.htm

I know a lot of people around here probably know about this, but I didn't see it mentioned, so I thought I would. From what I've read you could basically use it to power a "regular" amp using 12-14VDC, although current draw will be really high. I know Purplepeople mentioned a DC-DC converter, which I'm guessing is the same as what's on this page, but with the design you can probably put everything in the amp case.

Hope this helps.
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Old 5th August 2004, 03:34 AM   #19
zuki is offline zuki  United States
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cost less to build this ?

http://lanzar.com/citempage.asp?model=RBVPRO2500
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Old 5th August 2004, 08:31 AM   #20
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The common wisdom is not to use switching supplies in a Class A amplifier. What is typical in so many "show" cars is to use Class D amps. The reason they are are as efficient as a DC/DC convertor is because Class D is a converter, just the AC to DC kind.

Otoh, Class A amps are highly inefficient. For example, the Pass XA160 is rated at 160WRMS into 8ohms but draws 500W at idle (yes, idle). The Brystons are also in the same league giving 600W into 8 ohms and drawing nearly 15A from the wall. The portable power normally used in show cars can barely give these amps what they need just idling. And since Ewok has 4 subs...

Impressive, Ewok, if indeed what you are proposing is real Class A amps in a car. The XA can drive an 87db speaker to 110dB. The 7Bs will shake the same speaker to 115dB. Even more important, these amps have the damping power to keep the subs from being murky sounding. Imagine being able to amplify a live mic'ed kick drum and have the listeners actually hear that it is a kick drum and not some random low note.

So, I say, go for it... beat's waiting for me to have enough money to bother with a show car of my own.

:)ensen.

PS: The fantasy will have nothing but electrostatic panels throughout and a few huge TL subs. And I won't be playing just bass... Toccata in D to open, Carmina Burana to hold the audience and a little 1812 Overture to bring the house down - hopefully literally. As I figure it, there's bragging rights if the judges ears start bleeding after the cannon shots and the swat team show up to look for the shooter. But you won't catch me near the thing, that's what remotes are for. And it will probably have to be shoehorned into an old Caddy hearse.

Okay, that's enough... it really late and I can tell I'm babbling and I'm not even sure any of this is correct.
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