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Old 20th May 2002, 06:21 PM   #1
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Default AC Power Regeneration anybody?

The following is taken from Madrigal's literature.

AC Power Regeneration

"The No33 Reference Monaural Amplifiers employ a revolutionary technique called AC power regeneration: the DC supply feeding the voltage gain stages is derived from an AC source generated within the device itself. This technique is expensive but very effective. In the No32 Reference Controller, a 400Hz oscillator generates the AC source for the preamplifier's audio power supplies (replacing the 50/60Hz reference provided by the local utility).

One advantage that 400Hz offers over 60Hz is that transformers are more efficient (they generate less heat) at the higher frequency. Another advantage is that filter capacitors are refilled more quickly, leading to a smoother supply of DC from the filter capacitors. Equivalent filtering from a 60Hz supply would require much larger capacitors (with higher Effective Series Resistance at high frequencies).

The 400Hz oscillator supplies an input signal to separate left and right channel power supply amplifiers. The oscillator amplifier outputs, in turn, supply clean, stable (400Hz) power to discrete DC regulators located in the adjacent left and right towers. Each of these towers contains a completely independent power supply; each powers a single preamplifier channel independently."

I was thinking about building stand alone unit, based on the above principle, supplying clean AC power to my source components.

Does anybody know links or schematics that might be helpful? As always your assistance is greatly appreciated.
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Old 20th May 2002, 06:36 PM   #2
jam is offline jam  United States
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First you will have to build a power amplifier that will handle the required voltage swing. Then find a high quality oscillator to drive the amplifier. The amplifier should also have some form of overcurrent protection to protect from shorts.
I use a PS Audio 600 with great results. This will be quite an undertaking but the results are worthwhile or just get a PS Audio.
I can hear cries of SPAM from Harry

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Old 20th May 2002, 07:01 PM   #3
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Thumbs up Power regeneration

Used 797 op amp 60Hz oscillator, one channel of regular stereo amp and power transformer for voltage step up. Sounded awsome but I need to fix power amp which was under heatsinked. Highly recommended.
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Old 20th May 2002, 07:07 PM   #4
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Default 400 hurts

HPotter,

IMHO you are wasting your time. Make a good clean PSU to start with and don't worry about the 400 hz stuff. For one thing, rectified 400 Hz is 800 Hz which is far more audible that 120 Hz. Second, you should use 400 Hz transformers. 60 Hz transformers will get hotter when run at 400 hertz because there are more eddy current losses in the laminations.
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Old 20th May 2002, 07:18 PM   #5
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Default AC Power Regeneration anybody

400Hz will require better transformers than the usual power tranformer. I have used the output transformer from a very good 200 watt tube amp and have gotten better sound than from a very good 1000 watt Bicron toroid power transformer even for 60Hz regeneration. There are other frequecies than 60 Hz involved when the voltage gets rectified. This is not as big a project as you might think. Check out the PS audio website for information on the benifits of AC regeneration.

H.H.
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Old 20th May 2002, 07:23 PM   #6
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Exclamation optimal SOA and isolation to boot

Thats why I did it. Building balanced amps with that high of a voltage swing looked like a lot of trouble and I wanted to stay with a Mosfet amp with pretty healthy bias.

H.H.
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Old 20th May 2002, 07:29 PM   #7
jam is offline jam  United States
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Changing the frequency has a marked improvement in the sound besides the efficiency of the supply increases.

Jam
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Old 20th May 2002, 09:49 PM   #8
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Power regeneration with an occillator and ab amplifier?????

http://www.tinaja.com/magsn01.asp

Whaddaya expect from a tree hugg'n commie pinko liberal?

Certainly, digital implementations have their own problems which need to be addressed.
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Old 20th May 2002, 10:36 PM   #9
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Default Power regeneration with an occillator and ab amplifier

I am a conservative Class A listening old school type. Regeneration is for sonics and waste even more power.
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Old 21st May 2002, 01:01 AM   #10
PassFan is offline PassFan  United States
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Default Skin Effect

I wonder with the higher frequency will you have to be concerned with skin effect. Perhaps thicker insulation or larger diameter wire because of this.
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