AC Power Regeneration anybody? - Page 5

Peter Daniel · 6th June 2002, 04:53 PM

I just bought yesterday computer backup power supply. Surplus price was CAD$80. It is 400VA unit, using 2 batteries. power amp and big transformer, basicalyy the stuff we were talking about at the beginning of the thread.
I connected all source components to it and I can say that there is improvement in the sound. The background is blacker (seems like less noise around instruments), better bass definition and rhytm, more detail meaning that bacground vocals are more articulate.
When I tried to run it from batteries only I didn't like the sound at all, there was no comparison.
Overall sounds like a good deal to me. Now I have to find a way to increase frequency from 60 to 100Hz.

cocolino · 6th June 2002, 11:07 PM

My following suggestion does not hit exactly the topic of this thread as You are talking about creating a totally "new" AC power line.
As this might be the ultimate approach to solve the power line noise problem completly, it seems to be (at least for me) the most complicated and costly solution. For some applications as very high power audio amplifiers this appears to be even almost impossible to do without huge efforts.
Though probably a less "perfect" solution but much easier and less expensive, why not just using high power line noise suppression isolating transformers (for example Ultra-Isolator from manufactorer Topaz)?
First they are much less liable to DC core saturation than torodial transformers and second due the incredible low primary to secondary winding feedthrough capacitance they are able to attenuate most of all that line noise garbage You are talking about.
Though this transformers are really expensive (up to 1k$) when new they can be bought as surplus or second hand at places like ebay for low money.
Besides this the part of folks among You having 230V AC power line can use the split secondary windings for implementing a "balanced" AC power line system and thereby improving line grounding.

Christoph

Variac · 7th June 2002, 02:35 AM

I remember the old tube AM marine radio on my fishing boat had a motor generator to jack up the battery power to higher volts. When you transmitted, the motor would whine up to speed -pretty cool. I have demonstrated my ignorance before so I am not hesitant to ask which kind of AC motors will function as alternators? It seems that there are various kinds. No need to mention 3 phase-it makes my head hurt.

Do motors with start-up caps work? Do oil filled caps sound better? hahaha. Actually, would it be a good idea to have a snubber on the driven motor to quell any noise caused by it?
They don't have brushes-right?

Pretty amusing, what WOULD the efficiency probably be?
This really might work on low power amps.

I have a 1000VA TOpaz and have asked about it in the past. Any more info?

Pete Fleming · 7th June 2002, 05:54 AM

HPotter, the waveform from an UPS is generally considered woeful. When feeding a computer’s switch-mode supply this doesn’t really matter, but clearly defeats the purpose when feeding audio. When the mains AC is connected it also serves as a filter, probably leading to the improvements you mentioned.

Cheers,

Pete

Peter Daniel · 7th June 2002, 06:32 AM

I also had my doubts when buying it. However it works and soon I'll get another one.

Pete Fleming · 7th June 2002, 06:36 AM

You could probably just have a look at the one you have and build the filter part of it, as that's what's doing the work at the moment. However for that price it would probably cost you more to build your own v just going out and buying another.

Glad your happy with it.

Peter Daniel · 7th June 2002, 06:47 AM

This is how it looks.

Peter Daniel · 7th June 2002, 06:48 AM

So, what do you think?

fmak · 7th June 2002, 07:27 AM

Though probably a less "perfect" solution but much easier and less expensive, why not just using high power line noise suppression isolating transformers (for example Ultra-Isolator from manufactorer Topaz)?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have two Topazs which are really noisy and have to be sited outside.

They sound ok but not as good as ac regenerators.

Variac · 7th June 2002, 07:40 AM

As Pete pointed out, what we need is DC. So why not have the AC motor drive a DC generator? Does that eliminate the need for a transformer if the Dc volts are right? - It IS isolated! Most DC motors will work like generators too, right?

The flywheel would be a good touch

How would I get a Plus and minus supply for my Son o Zen?
two generators?

Maybe better to make the Aleph finally.

7th June 2002, 02:35 AM	#43
Variac diyAudio Editor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco, USA	I remember the old tube AM marine radio on my fishing boat had a motor generator to jack up the battery power to higher volts. When you transmitted, the motor would whine up to speed -pretty cool. I have demonstrated my ignorance before so I am not hesitant to ask which kind of AC motors will function as alternators? It seems that there are various kinds. No need to mention 3 phase-it makes my head hurt. Do motors with start-up caps work? Do oil filled caps sound better? hahaha. Actually, would it be a good idea to have a snubber on the driven motor to quell any noise caused by it? They don't have brushes-right? Pretty amusing, what WOULD the efficiency probably be? This really might work on low power amps. I have a 1000VA TOpaz and have asked about it in the past. Any more info? __________________ 2013 Burning Amp Festival announced: Sunday, October 6th in S.F. We need Volunteers & sign-up's for what you're bringing!

7th June 2002, 07:40 AM	#50
Variac diyAudio Editor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco, USA	FETHEAD As Pete pointed out, what we need is DC. So why not have the AC motor drive a DC generator? Does that eliminate the need for a transformer if the Dc volts are right? - It IS isolated! Most DC motors will work like generators too, right? The flywheel would be a good touch How would I get a Plus and minus supply for my Son o Zen? two generators? Maybe better to make the Aleph finally. __________________ 2013 Burning Amp Festival announced: Sunday, October 6th in S.F. We need Volunteers & sign-up's for what you're bringing!

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6th June 2002, 04:53 PM	#41
Peter Daniel diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada	I just bought yesterday computer backup power supply. Surplus price was CAD$80. It is 400VA unit, using 2 batteries. power amp and big transformer, basicalyy the stuff we were talking about at the beginning of the thread. I connected all source components to it and I can say that there is improvement in the sound. The background is blacker (seems like less noise around instruments), better bass definition and rhytm, more detail meaning that bacground vocals are more articulate. When I tried to run it from batteries only I didn't like the sound at all, there was no comparison. Overall sounds like a good deal to me. Now I have to find a way to increase frequency from 60 to 100Hz.

6th June 2002, 11:07 PM	#42
cocolino diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bavaria (south of veal sausage equator)	My following suggestion does not hit exactly the topic of this thread as You are talking about creating a totally "new" AC power line. As this might be the ultimate approach to solve the power line noise problem completly, it seems to be (at least for me) the most complicated and costly solution. For some applications as very high power audio amplifiers this appears to be even almost impossible to do without huge efforts. Though probably a less "perfect" solution but much easier and less expensive, why not just using high power line noise suppression isolating transformers (for example Ultra-Isolator from manufactorer Topaz)? First they are much less liable to DC core saturation than torodial transformers and second due the incredible low primary to secondary winding feedthrough capacitance they are able to attenuate most of all that line noise garbage You are talking about. Though this transformers are really expensive (up to 1k$) when new they can be bought as surplus or second hand at places like ebay for low money. Besides this the part of folks among You having 230V AC power line can use the split secondary windings for implementing a "balanced" AC power line system and thereby improving line grounding. Christoph

7th June 2002, 05:54 AM	#44
Pete Fleming diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2001	HPotter, the waveform from an UPS is generally considered woeful. When feeding a computer’s switch-mode supply this doesn’t really matter, but clearly defeats the purpose when feeding audio. When the mains AC is connected it also serves as a filter, probably leading to the improvements you mentioned. Cheers, Pete

7th June 2002, 06:32 AM	#45
Peter Daniel diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada	I also had my doubts when buying it. However it works and soon I'll get another one.

7th June 2002, 06:36 AM	#46
Pete Fleming diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2001	You could probably just have a look at the one you have and build the filter part of it, as that's what's doing the work at the moment. However for that price it would probably cost you more to build your own v just going out and buying another. Glad your happy with it.

7th June 2002, 07:27 AM	#49
fmak diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: London UK	Though probably a less "perfect" solution but much easier and less expensive, why not just using high power line noise suppression isolating transformers (for example Ultra-Isolator from manufactorer Topaz)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have two Topazs which are really noisy and have to be sited outside. They sound ok but not as good as ac regenerators.