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Destroyer X will show his amplifier in 24 hours
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Old 15th June 2004, 10:24 AM   #21
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Destroyer X will show his amplifier in 24 hours

your approach is fine until you do not burn expensive speakers. And if that approach worked that well, we would see them prospering.
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Old 15th June 2004, 10:43 AM   #22
millwood is offline millwood  United States
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Originally posted by till
From my trips to south amerika i learned: things that would for sure not work in europe, will work over there.

The reason may be the better Karma: less stress all around.

yeah, i would agree: the laws of physics are simply different down there. it is science, not karma.
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Old 15th June 2004, 11:18 AM   #23
ABO is offline ABO  Netherlands
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Originally posted by till

From my trips to south amerika i learned: things that would for sure not work in europe, will work over there.

In my experience the opposite is also true!
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Old 15th June 2004, 11:34 AM   #24
SY is offline SY  United States
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Destroyer X will show his amplifier in 24 hours
It's the Coriolis force. That's why toilets flushed on the Equator go straight down without spinning.

You, probable not so young boys, are to clever and fast to do the things, and so many years you will have ahead from you to be a little bit slow to do things and have conclusions.
Wise, profound, and true.
"You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."
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Old 15th June 2004, 12:07 PM   #25
phase_accurate is offline phase_accurate
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PMA wrote:

your approach is fine until you do not burn expensive speakers. And if that approach worked that well, we would see them prospering.
Maybe that's the reason why the Brazilian driver manufacturers are prospering !!!!


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Old 15th June 2004, 12:27 PM   #26
Elso Kwak is offline Elso Kwak  Philippines
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Default Circuit topology

Originally posted by AKSA
Carlos' amp will deliver these sorts of outrageous powers into low resistance (rather than impedance) loads, because there is no phase shift and stability is never really challenged.

However, into a reactive load like a loudspeaker, I certainly agree, you'd need strictly 6 output pairs for complete, cast iron protection against secondary breakdown, though some would argue credibly for five pairs.

Still, the Sankens Carlos is using are pretty tough devices.

I have done something very similar some years ago with Sanken LAPT transistors and have definitely seen these powers (>1000 watts) with four outputs per side, but specifically using a purely resistive load.

However, this amp is still impressive, and your comments take nothing away from Carlos' circuit. But I've heard no-one yet comment on the topology or fine detail of the stability regime, such as the 10pF across the collector/base of the predriver.

Imagine the difficulties of matching Vbe and beta on five output devices per side!! What is the sample size required to achieve this, even within the same batch? I have found matching is critical to good sound, and if you don't do it, forget about a tidy handover from one side to the other....... You can definitely hear the difference, and it ain't pretty.


Hello Hugh,
the circuit is VERY similar to the GAS Son of Ampzilla except a few details: like triple Darlington outputs vs normal Darlington for the Ampzilla, the higher supply voltage and bias detail.
I could even advice destroyerx not to connect the longtailed pair to the opposite rail but to half the supply voltage. And matching all four inputtransistors to 1% on Beta. Omit the bipolar elco made up off two electrolytics and use a polypropylene cap. Also some sort of offset adjustment would be neat.
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Old 15th June 2004, 02:09 PM   #27
destroyer X is offline destroyer X  Brazil
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Default I receive one letter, one ashamed boy asking very basic electronics

No need to ashamed, i born without walk and talk, and always learning from Pass, from one man from Netherland, John Curl, and a lot of others.

This way, about circuit, it works and of course may be a copy of someone else, why of course guys?, because do not exist one man in earth that never read a book from other people knowledge
written inside, this way, when you learn those thing in University, those informations will be the reference to you, and you will keep things rolling starting using those informations to do your "own circuit"... this kind of "origine" material will be possible if you lock someone in the top of the hill, without communications with the world, this way he will develop a fork, a knife, made with stones.

I perceive some people trying to make bad games, trying to unstabilize others, to make them nervous...bad use, better to be more friendly and not disturb. If you cannot understand, ask the one to explain without this kind of proud that show more weekeness than other thing.

For this one that have no good experience, and send a mail to me, and to the others that always try to reduce others man experience, to diminish their importance... the old rule, if you cannot match them, try to made him not so good!... cannot be taller than him..... climb some stair and talk from that place... or make some dah dah dah! to give us the impression that not minding about nothing.... you, the one, knows that i am directing to you, not all forum, only to you.

About my amplifier, because Sony, Kenwood, and many others making same thing, not clever start with no reference... you will construct some amplifier with a lot of condenser to separate stages... will return to stone age times.

This one is mine, and going to register, also in this forum there are hundreds alike, they all have transistors, this way copy from others because have transistors too?

The amplifier works, and is working now, i am hearing good music with it. now is running cold with only 20 watts peak, not more power is needed if you do not want to disturb neighboors, but some big places need more power, also hard speakers, low efficience ones called, my idea have another name to those damn speaker.

My amplifier first stage, without signal in input, stage voltages.
Diferential transistors - VBE 600 to 610 mV
Second Stage, no more diferential - 620 to 630 mV
Third Stage- 580 to 600 mV
Fourth Stage- 600 to 610 mV
Power output stage- 540 to 550 mV

Idle current to adjust will depend how many output transistor you put.... to be a very safe amplifier, use 12 pairs, and to use only in 4 ohms charge use 4 pairs...your choise.
Thinking it used to 4 ohms, the total current will be 60 mA, rail current.

Before switch on put big resistor, alike 100 ohms, 10 watts in series with plus and minus, this way, measuring the voltage on those resistors you will check:

a) If is same voltage above the positive rail resistor related to the negative rail resistor.... 10 volts on it represents 100mA, 9 volts will be 90mA.... and 1 volt will be 10 mA

b) Current may be the same, with small errors, better if no errors.. same current, but normally you will find some miliamperes diferent in a 5 percent basis.

c) If big voltage on those resistor, the bias is too big, try to reduce... if cannot, check circuit again, something is open circuit, or short circuit somewhere, transistor lead soldered wrong, condenser polarity wrong, some component may be a little hot.

d) Check the output voltage, dc at the amplifier center, the output bar line, i more than some milivolts, error in assembling, check VBE voltages on each transitor.

e)If all is correct, disconnect power and put fuses in the resistor place, and switch on an measure again, the off set voltage (remained small Dc voltage over charge, over the speaker), check the bias using ohms law, measure voltage over the emitter resistor and calculate current, re-adjust current and off set.... voltage and current must be fixed, no variations., no fluctuations. those measurements... all them, must be done with a charge connected in the output.... if all good, put also a fuse in the output line to protect speakers...measure resistance of fuses, sometimes so bad that makes you think amplifier is awfull, and you send to trash a good amp, and a bad fuse.

Use always clean table to assemble and test, remember that under the board (normal boards, mine are different), you can make short circuits because components terminals and solder islands are exposed.

Better to use rubber over the table... not with because your eyes, and not too dark too, the ligth may come from your left side because you use right hand (if you use rigth hand), and cannot put ligth from right side because of shadows.

Isolate all mains wiring, and put transformers and power switch in a safe distance, all expose wire isolated...i use some adhesive made of paper, the white one that is cheap, alike the ones you use to fix absorbers in babies.... put mains and trafo. distant.... more than 50 centimeters, use heavy gauge wires to bring DC to amplifier, avoiding resistance.

Before switch on, check it three times (and some mistake can still there!), take a look in possible shorts with a multimeter and measure resistance from plus to minus, plus to output and negative to output.... hy resistance.... more than 200 K normally... if low.... problems!...or circuit is wrong designed, copied, or assembled...normally bad assembling with mistakes.... one small short can make all voltages crazy, and some component burns without smell or explode... this one, resistance measurements are really first importance before power the unit.

Always, and i made around 4000 thousand, very hard, 10 to 50 in a thousand amplifiers you do not need to balance somewhere... increase or decrease some emitter resistor to change VBE voltage in the next stage.... also some changes in feedback resistor that controls the gain, sometime too much high VBE... do not use more than 650 volts!... because transistor can be near saturation, and will distort..... better VBE's aroud 500 to 580 milivolts DC voltage.

Before assembling, check transistor voltage capacity, related the voltage you gonna use....better this maximum allowable transistor voltage be at least twice voltage it will work... alike voltage from plus to minus (ground out this time)

Transistors not magic or with personallity components, they do not sing good in my comprehension, or sing bad a song, also electrons are all them the same, not big electrons or thin electrons or fat electrons. Have to consider the respectable name of the factorie, the maximum current, maximum voltage, the gain, the maximum frequency and maximum power can transfer to heath sinks... those watts are power dissipation max.... if 100 watts, it means that audio will be around 50 watts and other 50 watts will be heat (sometimes 65 to 35 ratio). If respected will work good

Putt heatsinks on drivers and power units, put bias diodes or transistor working as VBE multiplier, in contact with heat sink.... heat contact, only thermical, not electrical contact.... isolate them if you are a begginer, if not, isolate the heat sinks one related the other with wood, and also all heatsinks from metal chassis with woodem pieces to isolation.

If you amplifier will produce 60 Watts RMS channell, and two channels working, total audio 120 Watts RMS, total consumption are 240 Watts (around), and in 220 volts main, the fuse will be 1 ampere.

Fuses to power, will depends the power the amplifier will hold, made simple calculations only to have an idea.... how many volts it produces over the speaker terminals.... 20 Vots?.... and speaker is 4 ohms?.... put a 5 ampere fuse (not precise, not correct, but works good.

And to protect you speaker.... whats the real power he goes without over drive....put an low frequency audio generator.... 30 hertz or 100 hertz, your choice, i prefer 20 hertz and go increasing amplifier volume till the moment you see speaker movement cannot go further.... this is maximum power... measure with voltimeter....you found 16 volts?..... 8 Ohms the speaker.... can use 2amperes, better 2.5 fuse..... this 16 volts represents 32 watts rms without speaker overdrive and distorts, transforming sinusoidal waves into square waves... forget the manufacturer informs, all them lye too much!

You will see that, hard to find normal speaker, the standard ones, not top high excursion, hy power units, but normal ones normally cannot go to 8 volts (8 to 10 watts maximum).... the good ones goes to end excursion with only 4 volts (2 watts if 8 ohms)

Good luck.... experience is hard to learn... all of you , the young ones, have to burn a lot to learn things, about isolate multimeter tips because you will always send circuits to hell when measuring VBE or VCE voltages on it... do not measure on transistors... find another point to not short!... those things, many of you knows, but if one do not knows, my work here is already paid.

Good luck, and remember, do not be bad guys, your father will send you to sleep without see television.... hummmmm bad boy!

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Old 15th June 2004, 02:58 PM   #28
destroyer X is offline destroyer X  Brazil
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Default Make a brain check up

I measure less than 150 culhonohms, you are with low pressure brain, have to inflate it.

Mine too!

Some boy from US wrote me one Mail full of new words to me.

But do not translate, i think he wanted to say love me.

First was You are the son of a beach, Yeahhh!, i really born in front of the beach.

Other was that i am sucker, or sukker, not know.... when baby sucks milk...Yeahhhhhh!... correct.

but the F... myself is no good.... can be got to bed with your wife...no!.... i gonne already.

And i do not know....i think i will ask you all, putting as threads!?

hohohô....big Charlie is alive again!

See pictures near Sweden... to food your dreams!....hahaha!

Someone told me he is in my appartment.... that explaind whole thing, isn't it?

That's because american movies so good, you have enormous imagination.

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Old 15th June 2004, 03:03 PM   #29
destroyer X is offline destroyer X  Brazil
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Default Digital picture, reduced, of course.

Not good this size..... we have limits because of bandwidth.

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Old 15th June 2004, 03:06 PM   #30
destroyer X is offline destroyer X  Brazil
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Default One other, can this be in Sweden

Mein neue Deustchland, ich bin hier, till, du bist mein freund.

Those words, maybe in swedish....or german.... who wrote those words?

I think Carlos has another family name, can he be Hallo brother, yes...he is in his heart.

But true life, guys, i did not even met this man.... but i want it.

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