Building the ultimate DIY power amp

[grataku]

Hugh,

grataku@yahoo.com

fire away.

[tcpip]

Originally posted by traderbam
OK, you've decided to bite the hand that offers you fine cuisine. So dine alone

Biting hands, as you put it, was not my intention. Hands inserted in dangerous places carelessly tend to get bitten, even if neither of us is here to bite hands. I'm sorry if from my entire post, the only line that registered with you is the last phrase you quoted. It was the rest of the post which was relevant, in my opinion.

[fab]

Sorry to interrupt but seing all previous interesting comments I have some too:
1) I have less than $1000 of equipment (20 MHz oscilloscope, power supply, homemade THD meter, multimeters, 4 ohms power resistors, electronics parts). For a diyer, what more do you need and what are the parameters that make a expensive hi-fi commercial products to sound better than a diy product that I can not measure with my "low cost" test equipment?
2) To get the theoritical same result, a diy project does not require the same investment at all than a commercial product for obvious reasons (first "manpower" costs more than parts today and diyers do not count time as money, a commercial product must be repeatable, "good looking", etc).
3) tcpip has made a very pertinent comments about the power of internet in regards to communicate information all over the wordl and have everybody to get a "higher" level of knowledge of audio. In fact, I have learned more about amp design from seeing other designs than what I have learned back in school.
4) I have great respect for those who design commercial products because only a few percentage of peoples can design and build their own amp (and take the time to do so). However, I can not imagine that anybody can pretend that someone else in the world can not do better than himself.
5) What is better sound? Even on this forum, nobody agrees on that . Is it too detailed that you can hear the differences between the sources and recordings with defects or is it when it is smooth or else?
6) If there is no consensus on sound quality than someone can simply choose a design that sounds "good" to his ears. It is like wine: if you can not see the difference between a $200 and a $20 wine bottle why would you buy the $200 (because other peoples like it more than the $20?)?

And Peter R., if you like the Bryston then go for it!

Fab

[tcpip]

Originally posted by fab
Sorry to interrupt but seing all previous interesting comments I have some too:
1) I have less than $1000 of equipment (20 MHz oscilloscope, power supply, homemade THD meter, multimeters, 4 ohms power resistors, electronics parts).

Great list. How did you make a home-made THD meter? In fact, how does one make a super-low-distortion sine wave generator with a wide freq range? I'd be keen to know any pointers or details you can give me.

5) What is better sound? Even on this forum, nobody agrees on that . Is it too detailed that you can hear the differences between the sources and recordings with defects or is it when it is smooth or else?
6) If there is no consensus on sound quality than someone can simply choose a design that sounds "good" to his ears. It is like wine: if you can not see the difference between a $200 and a $20 wine bottle why would you buy the $200 (because other peoples like it more than the $20?)?

You're so spot-on... In fact, when this discussion started, I was expected people to say things like "Why compare with Krells and Mark Levinsons? None of the commercial designs can come anywhere near an Aleph-X/Hiraga/JLH96/whatever...." Instead, I began to see quite the opposite type of comments, where people began saying that no diy design can hope to match the top-end commercial amps. I'm still to come to terms with this.

[K-amps]

Originally posted by tcpip
None of the commercial designs can come anywhere near an Aleph-X/Hiraga/JLH96/whatever...."

TCPIP, Disagree with you on this, have you compared various Krells to the Aleph-X's/ Hiraga's/ JLH's personally?

Maybe the latter are better than the former on some parameters but not sure if I'd make a statement as, "None of the commercial designs can come anywhere near an ......."

This is an interesting thread.

[peranders]

Originally posted by LRRockBox
I'm not exactly a first timer. To building an amp, yes, However, I do have a masters in electronics, and a VERY goo soldering iron

I see that you also are a project engineer. Good!

My advise to you is:

Form a team of max 3-5 persons which can contribute. Pick up ideas from others but you deside otherwise it ends up with... the posts above... nothing.

Look at tangent, morsel, ppl and KurtW and their Meta, Mint, and PPA projects. (headphone amps)
http://elvencraft.com/ppa/

[Paradise_Ice]

traderbam, only represents himself and not a nation! i promise!

I had a FPB 300 from Krell, i had it on for 3 years solid never turning it off! it was a good amp, but honest for the money, its not the best. not even close. thats subjective but so what.

Home Made DIY amps can be better, pure and simple.
They may not look as Space age but an amplifier is all about function! right? who cares what it looks like! johnnyx got it, the CNC machines,LOL, dont forget the anodised case!
My wife made me an amplifier that is just better in ever way, no you cant have her!
tcpip i quote traderbam,

How does a DIY'er beat Ferrari? easy, with passion! my brother has a Nissan skyline with twice the engine output of a Ferrari, It will out handle out drag any production car, it took years to make, and a lot of tweaking,

The big names are to cocky and it takes a rookie to cut them down ever now and then! Not all DIYers are equal, i know some are better than the fat cat designers, so with that, Go on Your self Big Man!!! ,LOL

[pro]

Your brother will be able also to have the faster car of the world, but he does not have a Ferrari. A Swatch clock costs 1/1000 of a Rolex and is also preciser, but it is not a Rolex. You will be able to construct also the best sounding amplifier of the world, but it will be never a ML or a KRELL or a JR.
I think that when they are bought of the objects makes also for one prestige issue. It is clearly that diyer you begin to make it or for passion or why you do not have moneies in order to buy one good enough sounding electronic, then, like nearly all the hobby, we become of the fanatics us and then we feel the difference between a regolator of tension and an other, like saying that we lighten our bicycle of 20 grams and then we say that in climb goes better, when then that morning we have eaten 100 grams of fruit in more of the usual. I think that to the end the things we make why them appeals to us to make them, but I do not understand why we must confront the things that we make, with those that other people makes , than they make well and that they do from many years.
Ciao.

[K-amps]

Originally posted by Paradise_Ice
traderbam, only represents himself and not a nation! i promise!

I had a FPB 300 from Krell, i had it on for 3 years solid never turning it off! it was a good amp, but honest for the money, its not the best. not even close. thats subjective but so what.

Home Made DIY amps can be better, pure and simple.
They may not look as Space age but an amplifier is all about function! right? who cares what it looks like! johnnyx got it, the CNC machines,LOL, dont forget the anodised case!
My wife made me an amplifier that is just better in ever way, no you cant have her!
tcpip i quote traderbam,

How does a DIY'er beat Ferrari? easy, with passion! my brother has a Nissan skyline with twice the engine output of a Ferrari, It will out handle out drag any production car, it took years to make, and a lot of tweaking,

The big names are to cocky and it takes a rookie to cut them down ever now and then! Not all DIYers are equal, i know some are better than the fat cat designers, so with that, Go on Your self Big Man!!! ,LOL

Agree with some of your points, and yes you make a very valid point about my generalizing, My apologies to all grown-up Brits.

[kilowattski]

LRRockBox,

The answer to your question is somewhat subjective. Because you mentioned a Pass Labs X amplifier, see if you can get a hold of some Aleph X blank PCB's and build some high power Aleph X monoblocks. There is a lot of documentation and help in the Pass Labs forum. Lots of guys there have built Aleph X's and maybe you could even help improve on the design. Best of luck picking an amplifier.