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Old 29th April 2004, 12:46 PM   #1
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Exclamation Elektor crescendo ME vs ESP project101

I have decided to build a mosfet amplifier, but now I am a little bit confused between these two amps. I know that they are both good, but ...

Elektor crescendo ME is a classical amplifier with classical diferential input stage and added protection circuit with offset servo.

Rod `s project 101 is simple bootstrap amplifier without any protection, but I know that simple is many times better.

So any opinions between these two amps?
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Old 29th April 2004, 10:20 PM   #2
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Hm no interest? I know that would be hard to compare those two amps, but.... please do not let me

Thank you.
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Old 29th April 2004, 11:45 PM   #3
Gofer is offline Gofer  Netherlands
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Default Elektor crescendo ME vs ESP project101

I think you should go for the ESP project 101. The bigger version of it handles more power and abusement than the elektor one (due to the nature of lateral mosfets).
IMHO the elektor crescendo ME is not well designed and tested and if you look very carefull on this website you can read how to tweak it in order to let it work properly.
I am shure Rod's product is well tested and analysed. It is also cheaper to build.
Long time ago I build the real crescendo and the crescendo ME is compared to that slightly whimpy.
When I have the guts to post my new version of the 'old' crescendo using excicon replacements I will let you know.

Sincerely,

Gofer
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Old 30th April 2004, 01:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: Elektor crescendo ME vs ESP project101

Quote:
Originally posted by supernet
I have decided to build a mosfet amplifier, but now I am a little bit confused between these two amps. I know that they are both good, but ...

Elektor crescendo ME is a classical amplifier with classical diferential input stage and added protection circuit with offset servo.

Rod `s project 101 is simple bootstrap amplifier without any protection, but I know that simple is many times better.

So any opinions between these two amps?
a link to the Elektor crescendo schematic (not the ME, which was in the April 2001 issue of the now defunct magazine):
http://crilen.dns2go.com/pd/images/B...tor/Cres1c.jpg

The Crescendo looks to be a good design, with cascoded VAS. Nearly identical to some current production amps from Hafler, like the P1500 etc.

You can buy boards for the 101 for $22 plus shipping. For the Elektor, I know of no source, but I am sure someone on this board has designed it and I suspect boards are available in Europe.

My take is go with the 101, because it is simple, solid and available. The Elektor will be tougher to build, and I doubt you will hear a difference. Build the both and report back here!!
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Old 30th April 2004, 07:44 AM   #5
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Thanks

I am also a little bit on Rod`s side, but I belive that differencies are small, so I can start another story- bootstrap vs...

Some people on Rod`s forum complain about bass of p101, so this a little bit worried me.
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Old 25th May 2004, 01:49 PM   #6
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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Thumbs up Just finished a P101......

Started out as an amp for a sub but after testing was far too good so ordered another PCB to make a stereo power amp, the low power version....... about 75W - 8ohm.

I won't go into a heap of adjectives but this is one fine amplifier that outdoes any Rotel, Marantz or NAD etc and in my 30+ years in this game it is one of the finest amps I've ever heard and that's going through a Rotel preamp. A P88 preamp would better? Don't know...... maybe someone could tell me. This amp really takes control of the speaker.

All components were just run of the mill from Jaycar, WES and Altronics (Oz suppliers) and from the sound I'm not going to replace them with any boutique components. I think Rod has done this design so you don't have to use the super special components but I'm sure they would enhance the design. IMO, a great design is more important. The power supply is a simple well thought out design that's very effective.... the more I look at it, the more clever I think it is.

As far as too much bass...... phooey. I'm using floorstanders with Peerless 850122 drivers with an F3 around 40Hz and not too much at all. All a matter of taste I suppose.

Rod was very helpful with any questions and the only problem I had was actually seeing some of the components that were grouped tightly when soldering....... old age.... [sigh].

Look out there's a new kid in town......... the P101...... take a bow Rod.

Here's some pics.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg p101 inside.jpg (58.1 KB, 2471 views)
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Old 25th May 2004, 01:51 PM   #7
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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One more pic.
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File Type: jpg p101 front.jpg (15.0 KB, 2118 views)
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Old 25th May 2004, 02:45 PM   #8
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Rodís amps are very good sounding, so why not this one (especially when he claims a refference)?

Unfortunately, when people ask about speaker/amp choice they donít tell the amp/speaker they are using. I found that Rodís amps work well with many speakers. OTOH, crescendo is not so good in sosializing with other parts of the audio chain.

Low frequencies. That is where the crescendo (and many MOSFET) excels. Your other parts must be able to accommodate this. Though both amps use similar transistor (in specs) but I havenít found a TO-3P that can rival a TO-3 in bass. So if you worried about poor bass, that must be true (with crescendo as comparison). From spec mini-crescendo produces as low as 4Hz while Rodís 10Hz but I donít think that Rodís is ďthatĒ close to mini-crescendo.

Knowing how crescendo sounds compared to many other amps I have built, in most situation I believe that Rodís will outperform the crescendo. The crescendo had been giving me headaches for years. But I donít give up (to make it as my refference amp). Thereís something in the Hitachi that I like very much
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Old 25th May 2004, 04:26 PM   #9
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Default Simple is always better

I am 53 years old, since 9 years old constructing amplifiers as my hobby...just copy, not understanding well how it works.

30 percent of them explode.

50 percent works reasonable

10 percent works very well

09 percent where very impressive.

Real good, simple amplifiers, Rodd Elliot, Death of Zen....44 years doing....now 10 years studdying hard....measuring.... testing, and make modifications... cannot say that those 3000 amplifiers could beat John Lindsley Hood design.... one other i like.... very similar P3A from ESP.

Unfortunattely never heard AKSA, but i suspect can be "the one", because his philosophy.... sound is for years, not only for measurements.... but also for measures too..... but the main use is to manking feel good!

I do not have big knowledge...but good ears and a very skilled comparation man.... i now how to avoid errors in comparison.

Carlos
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Old 25th May 2004, 04:55 PM   #10
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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Talking 53 year old.....

Hey Carlos............ another 53 year old. I can only trust my ears and not measurements and the older you get the more you know what to listen for. Only one of the few benefits getting older.

I was going to use the P101 in a sub and then build a Aska 55 but this worked out so well and I can't afford to build both..... sorry Hugh. I love Hugh's philosophy of keeping it simple and striving to reduce the number of components as I can relate to that. IMO, the Aska would sound better than my P101 but I'm extremely happy with the result that I got.

Off to enjoy the music..........
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