Is this a Hoax? (Not Directly Audio-Related..) - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 26th April 2002, 09:09 AM   #11
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Yep i have the same kind of reservations which is why i said this is not a be all and end all solution but i would rather stop short of saying "This doesnt work" and would rather remain a little sceptical until more data is available .... from what i can gather, this project is still under development but it relies heavily on quantum physics where things are a whole lot more weird than usual and i still think this may be possible.... also, i cant blame the people involved for keeping the finer details of this device rather vague to say the least : if it works, it's gonna make them all rather rich; if it doesnt work, they dont look quite as bad because there will always be that little bit of doubt in everyones heads.
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Old 26th April 2002, 10:10 AM   #12
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My other hobby is building Tesla coils.

See: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~dkfinnis/

Spend a bit of time around a Tesla list and the "free energy fringe" soon emerge with all sorts of claims ........ very elaborate/scientific some of them too .... much more so than the "snake-oil" paper referred to above

At the end of the day, not one has yet stood up to peer review or been reproducible. Scepticism is a good basis for analysis of any "new" scientific theory/invention.

Do remember, though, the "laws of thermodymanics" are merely our current paradigm .... there was a time when the earth was flat and the heart did not pump blood .......

cheers, mark
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Old 26th April 2002, 12:46 PM   #13
tiroth is offline tiroth  United States
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A heat pump is very different than something like a generator; very little work is required to just move heat from one place to another, because the actual heat transfered is doing no work. In theory 'COP' of 100 is quite possible in a heat pump.

Contrast this with doing something useful, such as powering a 100W bulb. Fully 100 joules/s are doing work, so if you were to put the light in a box and use it to make toast, you'd know that less than 100 J/s of heat would be forthcoming, due to losses.

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What is commonly not realized is that energy can be and is reused (changed in form) to do work, over and over, while being replenished (regauged) each time. If one has one joule of energy collected in one form, then in a replenishing potential environment one can change all that joule into a different form of energy, thereby performing one joule of work. However, one still has a replenished joule of energy remaining, by the conservation of energy law in such an environment, since the first joule was removed in different form.
This statement is complete crud from a physics standpoint. It's quite true that energy can be reused, in the sense that we can recollect it. The key fact is that if we use that energy to do any form of work, anything we can collect from that process will be (much) less than we put in, and in the best case we can approach (but never reach) 100% efficiency by collecting loss products. (It's called entropy, and it isn't debatable)

To anyone that has taken thermo, this isn't a revolutionary idea, it is a sad joke.
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Old 26th April 2002, 01:18 PM   #14
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yeah i agree the above statement is troubling in that it would appear that he is actually trying to create energy. He says energy can neither be created nor destoyed (by the way, this theory is actually now up for debate and some in the scientific community are out to prove that it is slowly being destroyed but i'll leave that arguement for another day) but he moves the energy from the device to do work and then says that it replenishes itself now it must do this in one of 2 ways, given the input energy is so small, that is not enough to replenish it so forget that idea 1st, energy in the surrounding environment must somehow be converted into a form that can be stored in the device or 2nd energy is being created where previously there was none. Now the second is not feasible and the 1st contradicts what his statement is saying.

Personally, i'd still like to see the thing in action and i still wont say "this thing dont work" but i'd caution against holding your breath waiting for more precise details regarding the MEG project. There is a patent for this device but it's generally mystical in it's details.......

ps. i have done studies in thermodynamics.

RULE #1. EVERYTHING IS DEBATABLE
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Old 27th April 2002, 09:04 AM   #15
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Default I've got a solution

A few of my friends - skeptical but intruiged - are trying to see if they can find the required parts for a reasonable price to test it ourselves. I'm a fan of "seeing it with my own two eyes" when it comes to this sort of thing. Even if it isn't a patent for a perpetual motion device involving a wheelchair motor, 3 old golf clubs and a pair of rubberbands, it still isn't in the realm of commonplace science.

There are a few other sites describing 3rd party attempts at the project, with mixed results. A number of them are convinced the device is actually getting over unity. I found the letter at http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tbinfos.htm to be rather informative background, though I'm not sure exactly how the device is harnessing the divergent energy - if that is even what is hypothesized to be happening.

I think the major problem here is that there is an awful lot of related material but because of the infancy of the project, no entirely coherent documentation has been put together yet.

From the link above:
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Some fellows in your discussion groups raised the question of my use of energy flow (Poynting diverged component versus Heaviside nondiverged component) but made an error in their questioning. The correction is important for the free energy researcher, for it reveals a gigantic source of free energy around every little EM circuit, once we pay a little to get the circuit in operation. In other words, scientists should have harnessed more of that already enormous energy flow right under their noses around every circuit anyway, and should have given us free, cheap, clean electrical power.
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Old 27th April 2002, 09:30 AM   #16
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funny thing is, if this thing can move energy and do so @ greater than unity, upon starting the circuit, you could then use a portion of the output to feed the input thus creating the mystical perpetual motion machine and using the remainder of the energy, power any device you might care for. I'm starting to see the gaping faults in this system ... most of the science behind it is plausible but alot of it is grossly misused.
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Old 28th April 2002, 01:03 AM   #17
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Exactly. They're actually planning to attempt this to prove it is getting over unity. Maybe it isn't true. I'm watching for the results anyway.
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Old 28th April 2002, 02:08 AM   #18
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Default free energy

These "Free energy" buffs have been around for years, they even hold conventions every year or so. Like UFO roswell group. Every so often one of them thinks they've found a new way to break the law of conservation, usually reworking the classic generator: a coil of wire rotating between two or more magnetic fields (or more coils of wire for that matter) www.depalma.pair.com is another interesting one.
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Old 28th April 2002, 06:55 AM   #19
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Well the energy is there, but in a different form. The energy is from magnets, EMFs, and a pulse width modulator chip. I think MEG used a neodymium magnet.

I did make a circuit that uses a 3 volt solar cell, about ten 220uf, and a motor. The solar cell had an output voltage of about 400mV from a 60 watt bulb that is a distance of 2 inches or 5.08 centimeters away. The solar cell powered the motor but not a red LED without a motor. I connect the motor and it ran but when I hooked my multimeter it read around 1.5...1.7...1.8...1.9...2.0.............5 volts. Then I touch the led. It lit but only for a limited time. One disadvantage is that the capacitors have to be little charged from the solar cell or energy before the circuit to work. The motor creates delay from rotating the coils. This creates a timing. The coils then generate EMF that enters in the circuit.

MEG might work or might not work but the energy is there.
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Old 28th April 2002, 11:31 AM   #20
Bakmeel is offline Bakmeel  Netherlands
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There are a few things I cannot fathem in this story:

Strange thing no 1: The designers claim that they draw their power from "the Vacuum". Apart from the fact that you will have to run this in a vacuum chamber (consumes energy), or in open space, What energy is there in "Vacuum"? Magnetic energy? This exists also in free air, but ok, have it in their vacuum...

Strange thing no 2: It appears to me that this will only work if you put this thing in the right circomstances in space-time. Their magnetic fields can only propagate in a linear form of space-time. Since this is very thin ice to move on, I wonder: Do they believe that we currently live in a linear form of space-time? Did Einstein not explain to us that space-time is curved? This is heavy stuff they just put on their thin ice!

I'm sorry, but I do not believe this thing works. Nice april-fool's joke though

Bouke
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