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Old 28th August 2010, 12:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millwood View Post
they did. they started to produce transistors in the mid 1950s.
Yeah but I don't think back in the 3773 heyday China had the stones to try faking 2N numbers. Now that they've discovered we Americans are cheap boneheads like from any other country, anything is possible.

Last edited by Andrew Eckhardt; 28th August 2010 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 28th August 2010, 12:14 PM   #12
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shreya View Post
can i give +/-50v to this circuit

Audio Amplifier 90-100W with 2N3773
Crimson's CE1704 uses a single pair 2N3773 (Toshiba) in quasi complementary for a 100W into 8r0 amplifier, using a 35+35Vac 250VA transformer. It's listed in their catalogue as a recommended set of components.

I have had 6 of these amps (CE1704) over the decades I have never damaged any of them.

I have tested two CE1704 to 200W into 4r0 using a 35+35Vac 625VA transformer. That exceeds the specification of 170W into 4r0 (1704) and did not damage the amplifiers.
I would not use the 3773 at >+-65Vdc due to their Vce0=140V
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Last edited by AndrewT; 28th August 2010 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 29th August 2010, 06:22 AM   #13
djk is offline djk
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Back in the day before I fully understood transistor ratings, I rebuilt a Phase Linear 400 with real 2N3773s. I am still amazed it worked fine (85V!).

The Crown D150A would do 90W/8R with one pair of 2N3773, about 130W/4R. They would blow up after a while, I think the heatsink arrangement was less than adequate.

I think the counterfeit transistor thing started with the distributors, not the manufacturers. I was buying un-branded 2SD555s from a distributor, no markings at all. I called them up and told them they were fake, they asked 'how do you know', I replied 'because they are PNP'. After this their parts all had brands and numbers on them. Their MJ15024 looked like Motorola, but would not run at 80V. They did run at 57V. They also sold me some Toshiba branded 2N3773 that would not run at 67V (Crown DC300A), and I assumed they were fake too.

Can a Toshiba 2N3773 meet JEDEC spec for that part number? I doubt it. Real RCA and Motorola parts were rated at 200C, I never saw a Toshiba part of that vintage rated above 150C.
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Old 1st September 2010, 01:55 PM   #14
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Something not generally known is that from the mid 80's Toshiba made a lot of BJT parts for Motorola, particularly motor drive modules with IGBT's but also many of the regular 2N and MJ series parts with the Motorola logo's on.

I expect they may well make the MJL and NJL parts as the numbers tally with the 2SA / 2SC parts Toshiba used to make before introducing the 'C5200.

Most Jap spec sheets are more conservative with power ratings, in particular Sanken, but most of the others too.
Very few will rate a TO220 part beyond 40 watts which is probably a good real life dissipation level for this case, vs 80 and 90 watt ratings for US and European parts. This conservatism could explain the 150 degree temp rating.

(I've seen TO220 fets rated over 200 watts by IR and others, presumably clamped to a super flat liquid cooled block of copper.)

The 3773 is a rugged beast with very strong SOA but isn't too fast. I got over 100W from a 3773 / 6609 pair many years back.

Never got to see how long they lasted as the amp powered speakers on a dodgem ride. Every few months the speaker wires would get dropped onto the 70 volt DC grid powering the cars and blow the earth wires in the amp usually taking out the silicon in the amp stage.
Never thought to put a fuse in the speaker live and ground return, but with the ride operator paying to have it fixed each time and money being tight my focus may have been elsewhere....
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Old 1st September 2010, 06:41 PM   #15
wg_ski is offline wg_ski  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djk View Post
Back in the day before I fully understood transistor ratings, I rebuilt a Phase Linear 400 with real 2N3773s. I am still amazed it worked fine (85V!).
If you screen modern (4MHz fT) 2N3773's to 200V Vceo, they are better than any of the original PL400's transistor options (FPL909, XPL909, RCA1B05, 2SD555). Only when they went to the 15024/15025 pair in the later compelmentary version did they get "better". I used to use Vceo-screened 2SD424's as replacements in both the PL400 and CS800 because they were only $3 a pop in 10+ lots and didn't blow up.

Quote:
Can a Toshiba 2N3773 meet JEDEC spec for that part number? I doubt it. Real RCA and Motorola parts were rated at 200C, I never saw a Toshiba part of that vintage rated above 150C.
2SD873 was Toshiba's original "2N3773". It was rated 175C. The beta curves look like they were pulled right from the original Moto data sheet. The s/b curve, however, looked like a copy of the one for the D424 which has the breakpoint at 70V. Real D424's back in the day would routinely withstand the 2N6259 torture-test (2.5A at 100V for 1 second).
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Old 1st September 2010, 10:24 PM   #16
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Look at Quasi's site for a BJT version of his very popular amp and specifically using 2N3773.
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Old 19th October 2010, 09:35 PM   #17
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Back in the early 80's (that is before many of you were born!) I designed Pulsed ATE power supplies using Motorola 2N3773.

We used to abuse the hell out of them but never had to use the stock of spare devicea we prudently stored. Indestructable, AFAIR.
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Old 23rd May 2011, 09:05 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by mjarve View Post
I have four old Toshiba 2N3773 transistors (along with two new Motorola’s; six total 2N3773) from a 1970-s era Sunn Coliseum Lead guitar amplifier. I also have a pair of their PNP counterparts, the 2N6609 made by ON Semiconductor (Motorola?). In addition, I have any number of old 70’s-era Marantz and Pioneer receivers from which to scavenge parts from, and two 460VA transformers from a couple of early-1990s Technics integrated amps. I am thinking, instead of tossing ways a bunch of still good parts from old equipment, I would put them to use in a new, simple, clean sounding stereo amp. Obviously I would welcome any suggestions anyone might have, or some schematics of amplifiers that use the 2N3773 and 2N6609. It needn’t be pretty, but it does have to sound good.
Was it the amplifier (include schema) from the attached jpg files?
about
2N3055 inside - commercial famous amplifier models, quasi complementary power output
you will find more schematics from vintage commercial products, also suited for the 2N3773.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffforrest View Post
Back in the early 80's (that is before many of you were born!) I designed Pulsed ATE power supplies using Motorola 2N3773.
We used to abuse the hell out of them but never had to use the stock of spare devicea we prudently stored. Indestructable, AFAIR.
Which brand was the developer of the 2N3773? Maybe first release from RCA or Motorola? Older or newer than 2N3055?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Sunn Coliseum chassis.jpg (38.8 KB, 665 views)
File Type: jpg Sunn Coliseum Slave card.JPG (267.5 KB, 649 views)
File Type: jpg Sunn Coliseum Slave Schematic.jpg (244.8 KB, 662 views)

Last edited by tiefbassuebertr; 23rd May 2011 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2011, 10:43 AM   #19
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MJL21193 can do just under 2 amps at 100v, but has drooping gain with increasing Ic.

Sanken 2SA1216 and 2SA1295 and their complements the 2SC2922 and 2SC3264 both can do 1.5A at 100v and have good gain linearity and are both fast and tough.

Other than that not much that I know of.
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Old 23rd May 2011, 03:50 PM   #20
wg_ski is offline wg_ski  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiefbassuebertr View Post
Which brand was the developer of the 2N3773? Maybe first release from RCA or Motorola? Older or newer than 2N3055?
I'm pretty sure the RCA device came first. And of course the 3055 before 3773 - they issued the part numbers in sequence until complementary pairs messed this all up.
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