The factory "service" is actually a full refurbishment. I don't believe they attempt service work at all; just pull the original boards and replace with a more recent model from whatever suitable stocks they hold and perhaps the transformer too, as necessary. It seems that is now the only factory service offered by other British manufacturers too, Arcam included. The case is also refinished, a new remote supplied as appropriate etc. You then have essentially a brand new amplifier at a factory price - very nice if that's what you wanted and were prepared to pay for.
My Cyrus 5 was returned as a 6 and the cost was completely disproportional to the problem, even neglecting the considerable high cost of forward and return freight to Australia. To top that, it was DOA! Even so, as Flossie points out, they no longer work on older models like the Cyrus 3. I guess there are several good reasons for that, like the front panel control layout, control board, remote control circuitry and probably the real panel and speaker connectors sockets too, which are laid out differently to accommodate the changes in features and connectivity throughout the history of that immortal diecast case.
I haven't put the issue of service work to the sales agent here either, fearing the gilt-edged fees and local freight costs for that too. You might think it is some kind of rare electronic artwork or amazingly sounding piece of amplification but it has many competitors whose gear is less compromised by a woefully inadequate power supply and the need to pay more for an auxiliary PSX unit to make up for the inconsistency
FWIW, I managed my own repair somehow, It cost me many hours in opening up and tracing the operation as best I could, since there are no manuals available and I needed to make a lot of assumptions with the unfamiliar microprocessor control system. Ah, Cyrus....small wonder they languish at the wrong end of popularity polls outside the UK at least.
My Cyrus 5 was returned as a 6 and the cost was completely disproportional to the problem, even neglecting the considerable high cost of forward and return freight to Australia. To top that, it was DOA! Even so, as Flossie points out, they no longer work on older models like the Cyrus 3. I guess there are several good reasons for that, like the front panel control layout, control board, remote control circuitry and probably the real panel and speaker connectors sockets too, which are laid out differently to accommodate the changes in features and connectivity throughout the history of that immortal diecast case.
I haven't put the issue of service work to the sales agent here either, fearing the gilt-edged fees and local freight costs for that too. You might think it is some kind of rare electronic artwork or amazingly sounding piece of amplification but it has many competitors whose gear is less compromised by a woefully inadequate power supply and the need to pay more for an auxiliary PSX unit to make up for the inconsistency
FWIW, I managed my own repair somehow, It cost me many hours in opening up and tracing the operation as best I could, since there are no manuals available and I needed to make a lot of assumptions with the unfamiliar microprocessor control system. Ah, Cyrus....small wonder they languish at the wrong end of popularity polls outside the UK at least.
Hi Ian,
I was authorized repair for Cyrus here in Canada, and I always repaired to component level. Every single model they sold. As for the equipment itself, the actual designs are ahead of their time, and remain so today - talking current model to current competing model. I have a pair of Mono X amplifiers that are way beyond most other equipment today. I can say this having been authorized warranty repair for most of the high end audio companies at one time or another.
Power supplies. They aren't undersized, but capable of more power with an external power supply. I don't need the external power supplies to attain an output of 150 wpc with the two mono blocks, and I have a Marantz 300DC to compare them to. The small box form they have can force this type of situation where an external supply is available. Personally, I don't think they are needed for most people's use.
Now, thinking back to that OP's model. I do remember that some runs had defective surface mount transistors. 46 all told. The fix was to replace all of them rather than to troubleshoot each fault. The way to check for this is to place a soldering iron against the plastic case. If it melts - those are the bad ones. If it doesn't, you have a real chance failure. Since all components have a failure rate, all brands do suffer from some failures.
Given the new cost of these units, GBP225 isn't too expensive. Especially when you consider what is charged to repair other brands. If they give you a more recent model, you just got a free upgrade. Since I have talked to the designers in person, and seen the progression of circuit design, each new model is an upgrade.
You're making a lot of assumptions in addition to your atypical experience Ian. However, how I handled service differs from how another distributor might have. My own personal belief is that Cyrus is expensive to buy, but they are ahead of the pack in circuit design and reliability. And finally, there isn't any need for a PSX-R and the equipment does not have an under-powered power supply. Not unless you want to beat them up, then the PSX-R will allow you to squeeze more power from that small box.
BTW, it does take a couple hours to replace those 46 surface mount transistors. It's not a fun job, but Cyrus wasn't aware that the parts were substandard in any way. It only involved a few runs of equipment.
The reason they don't release service information is simple. Most techs lay waste to the PCB traces, then there are the special ones who attempt to "upgrade" equipment. You can upgrade them if you really know what you are doing. Matching the diff pairs is one upgrade. Ever try to match smt's? I do and it's a pain. I have seen units that will never be reliable again from dealer service centers. some stuff is simply well beyond the average tech. Make no mistake either. They circuitry is a little different than you would be used to seeing. The processors were usually PIC chips from Microchip. Mystery solved for you Ian.
-Chris
I was authorized repair for Cyrus here in Canada, and I always repaired to component level. Every single model they sold. As for the equipment itself, the actual designs are ahead of their time, and remain so today - talking current model to current competing model. I have a pair of Mono X amplifiers that are way beyond most other equipment today. I can say this having been authorized warranty repair for most of the high end audio companies at one time or another.
Power supplies. They aren't undersized, but capable of more power with an external power supply. I don't need the external power supplies to attain an output of 150 wpc with the two mono blocks, and I have a Marantz 300DC to compare them to. The small box form they have can force this type of situation where an external supply is available. Personally, I don't think they are needed for most people's use.
Now, thinking back to that OP's model. I do remember that some runs had defective surface mount transistors. 46 all told. The fix was to replace all of them rather than to troubleshoot each fault. The way to check for this is to place a soldering iron against the plastic case. If it melts - those are the bad ones. If it doesn't, you have a real chance failure. Since all components have a failure rate, all brands do suffer from some failures.
Given the new cost of these units, GBP225 isn't too expensive. Especially when you consider what is charged to repair other brands. If they give you a more recent model, you just got a free upgrade. Since I have talked to the designers in person, and seen the progression of circuit design, each new model is an upgrade.
You're making a lot of assumptions in addition to your atypical experience Ian. However, how I handled service differs from how another distributor might have. My own personal belief is that Cyrus is expensive to buy, but they are ahead of the pack in circuit design and reliability. And finally, there isn't any need for a PSX-R and the equipment does not have an under-powered power supply. Not unless you want to beat them up, then the PSX-R will allow you to squeeze more power from that small box.
BTW, it does take a couple hours to replace those 46 surface mount transistors. It's not a fun job, but Cyrus wasn't aware that the parts were substandard in any way. It only involved a few runs of equipment.
The reason they don't release service information is simple. Most techs lay waste to the PCB traces, then there are the special ones who attempt to "upgrade" equipment. You can upgrade them if you really know what you are doing. Matching the diff pairs is one upgrade. Ever try to match smt's? I do and it's a pain. I have seen units that will never be reliable again from dealer service centers. some stuff is simply well beyond the average tech. Make no mistake either. They circuitry is a little different than you would be used to seeing. The processors were usually PIC chips from Microchip. Mystery solved for you Ian.
-Chris
Apologies to Cyrus - my reply wasn't meant as a criticism of their repair pricing as such. It was intended as a "sanity check" about sending back a 3 for repair/service. Given that you can buy a decent used 3 in the UK for £120, spending nearly twice that for a service doesn't make a lot of sense to me, much as I would like the situation to be different.
The only reason I posted on this thread is because I'm currently trying to repair the same model, and found this related discussion via a forum search. But my issues are different from the OP's, so I'll start a new thread on that.
I would also agree about the issue with SMD transistors on these older models, though I've found the 3i to be a bit more susceptible to this than the 3. I've done a complete SMD transistor change on the power amp section of a 3i, and it took me a fair bit longer than 2 hours!
The only reason I posted on this thread is because I'm currently trying to repair the same model, and found this related discussion via a forum search. But my issues are different from the OP's, so I'll start a new thread on that.
I would also agree about the issue with SMD transistors on these older models, though I've found the 3i to be a bit more susceptible to this than the 3. I've done a complete SMD transistor change on the power amp section of a 3i, and it took me a fair bit longer than 2 hours!
As said Chris, I did resolve the problem eventually, and I acknowledge that you have long and generously shared with us here, your Canadian service business experience, high professional standards and integrity which I have no reason to question. However, service agencies are now scarce in Oz, just 2 capital city centres to cover the entire continent for Cyrus, with no real options once we have already paid a considerable sum to get our amp there so it becomes expedient to accept any charges if we don't want to blow that too. It's not a scenario that inspires confidence in any organization but that's the side that the customer sees when they need service on their unusual products.
In discontinuing service support on a model, it would be considerate of Cyrus to release service information to other professional repairers, since they no longer support it, yet the customer could get something done closer to home, and their world could start turning again, perhaps restoring confidence in the product. So, must owners bin their ailing legacy models, sell them off to unsuspecting DIY newbs or should we give other professional repairers the needed support to solve the problems properly instead?
In discontinuing service support on a model, it would be considerate of Cyrus to release service information to other professional repairers, since they no longer support it, yet the customer could get something done closer to home, and their world could start turning again, perhaps restoring confidence in the product. So, must owners bin their ailing legacy models, sell them off to unsuspecting DIY newbs or should we give other professional repairers the needed support to solve the problems properly instead?
that's good. Hope you receive it soon.
Hi Ian,
Sorry for the extreme lateness of my response, but I missed your last message.
I agree 100%. If a company stops servicing a model, that service information should be placed on their website for free download on the date that service is discontinued.
I'm also a supporter of an idea that all companies should list all service manuals with the government, or a national body to collect this information. If that company fails, the information should then be released to the public. The same for a model they decide they can't service. All modifications should also be listed with them as well. I believe that someone who owns a piece of equipment, first owner or not, that they should be able to get it serviced properly.
-Chris
Sorry for the extreme lateness of my response, but I missed your last message.
I agree 100%. If a company stops servicing a model, that service information should be placed on their website for free download on the date that service is discontinued.
I'm also a supporter of an idea that all companies should list all service manuals with the government, or a national body to collect this information. If that company fails, the information should then be released to the public. The same for a model they decide they can't service. All modifications should also be listed with them as well. I believe that someone who owns a piece of equipment, first owner or not, that they should be able to get it serviced properly.
-Chris
Late to this party, but with all lights on like that i would have looked for a microcontroller, checked it was getting power, checked its xtal/resonator was working... and then maybe looked beyond that... but if you had no tools or experience, then yes sending it away to Cyrus was the best choice
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