I've seen cables that, instead of foil and braid shielding, use just foil along with a drain wire wrapped around to provide lower resistance to ground. Is this significantly less effective than shield and braid? If I use the drain wire method, do I wrap it in the same direction as the twist of the signal carrying wires inside, or opposite?
I plan to use double shielding (insulation in between), which deals with both electrostatic and electromagnetic interference. If I use braid, is it effective to only use as one of the shields and foil for the other, and then which one, the outer or inner?
Jon Risch from audioasylum recommends only grounding source end of the shield and terminating the other end with 0.01uF to ground. In my case of two mutually insulated shields, does this apply to both shields?
I plan to use double shielding (insulation in between), which deals with both electrostatic and electromagnetic interference. If I use braid, is it effective to only use as one of the shields and foil for the other, and then which one, the outer or inner?
Jon Risch from audioasylum recommends only grounding source end of the shield and terminating the other end with 0.01uF to ground. In my case of two mutually insulated shields, does this apply to both shields?
>double shielding (insulation in between), which deals with both electrostatic and electromagnetic interference
sorry this is nonsence
>Jon Risch from audioasylum recommends only grounding source end of the shield and terminating the other end with 0.01uF to ground
you can ask Mr.Risch in person, but this is diyaudio, not audioasylum
the common way - shielded twisted pair, with shield connected to ground in the input plug
sorry this is nonsence
>Jon Risch from audioasylum recommends only grounding source end of the shield and terminating the other end with 0.01uF to ground
you can ask Mr.Risch in person, but this is diyaudio, not audioasylum
the common way - shielded twisted pair, with shield connected to ground in the input plug
I worded it badly, and my example was mistaken. But two mutually insulated shields and capacitors are used professionally. Take a look for example here (and similar information can be found in other places), under the section "Shield connection":dimitri said:
http://www3.phoenixcontact.com/cgi-...ukte/basictopics/stoersicher/stoersicher.html
So, restating that one of my questions, assuming I wire as in figure 4 (except the inner is grounded at the source end), is it OK to use foil instead of braid for one of the two shields, and which one?
My other question about how foil+drain wire compares to shielding braid remains.
So? What's your problem? Get up on the wrong side of the bed today?
I was asking for a comparison of what sounds best, not which way is the most common. All three I mentioned are used in various audio cables.
>double shielding (insulation in between), which deals with both electrostatic and
electromagnetic interference
double shielding deals _only_ with electrostatic interference, twisted pair helps you do suppress electromagnetic interference. The better is four twisted wires (1-2-3-4), where two wires (1&3) and other two wires (2&4) connected in parallel.
>… is common practice to connect one side to the reference potential via a capacitor. This interrupts the ground loop for direct or low-frequent currents at least.
In this case all the hf EMI (from mobiles, etc) will be yours
For the good start try jensen transformer site and Bill Whitlock publications
>is it OK to use foil instead of braid for one of the two shields
it is better to use foil and thin braid simultaneously (as one shield)
>So? What's your problem? Get up on the wrong side of the bed today?
Not exactly. Nothing personal, sorry. But the discussion of the sound of two-feet double shield cable with a battery between the shields, or the cap before and after stripping from copper can drive me mad.
In different installations I worked with snakes thousands feet long, at mV levels with presence of strong EMI. The correct way of grounding and shielding in this case can be obtained only when you understand how the grounding actually was made in each piece of equipment on both sides.
>I was asking for a comparison of what sounds best
you have already know the answer – it’s up to you:
>Religion is answers that may never be questioned
electromagnetic interference
double shielding deals _only_ with electrostatic interference, twisted pair helps you do suppress electromagnetic interference. The better is four twisted wires (1-2-3-4), where two wires (1&3) and other two wires (2&4) connected in parallel.
>… is common practice to connect one side to the reference potential via a capacitor. This interrupts the ground loop for direct or low-frequent currents at least.
In this case all the hf EMI (from mobiles, etc) will be yours
For the good start try jensen transformer site and Bill Whitlock publications
>is it OK to use foil instead of braid for one of the two shields
it is better to use foil and thin braid simultaneously (as one shield)
>So? What's your problem? Get up on the wrong side of the bed today?
Not exactly. Nothing personal, sorry. But the discussion of the sound of two-feet double shield cable with a battery between the shields, or the cap before and after stripping from copper can drive me mad.
In different installations I worked with snakes thousands feet long, at mV levels with presence of strong EMI. The correct way of grounding and shielding in this case can be obtained only when you understand how the grounding actually was made in each piece of equipment on both sides.
>I was asking for a comparison of what sounds best
you have already know the answer – it’s up to you:
>Religion is answers that may never be questioned
Let me see if I understand you correctly: you recommend to use a twisted quad and a single foil-braid shield grounded at the source end.
Now I have a couple more questions:
Assuming a ground loop does not occur, could it be better to ground both ends of the cable?
And if I can't find large diameter braid (which I can't) is the foil+drain wire much worse?
What gauge is best to use for signal conductors (I'm using copper litz wire)? I have about 21; do I need thinner or thicker for interconnects?
How far does the shield need to be spaced away from the conductors, and what to use as a spacer?
Thanks in advance for replies.
PS
Now I have a couple more questions:
Assuming a ground loop does not occur, could it be better to ground both ends of the cable?
And if I can't find large diameter braid (which I can't) is the foil+drain wire much worse?
What gauge is best to use for signal conductors (I'm using copper litz wire)? I have about 21; do I need thinner or thicker for interconnects?
How far does the shield need to be spaced away from the conductors, and what to use as a spacer?
Thanks in advance for replies.
PS
Say what?
If the cable is short start with unshielded twisted quad
http://www.geocities.com/rjm003.geo/rjmaudio/int_mog.html
http://www.geocities.com/rjm003.geo/rjmaudio/int_endx.html
> And if I can't find large diameter braid (which I can't) is the foil+drain wire much worse?
The foil can be torn to pieces after bending, and the drain wire can lost contact with the piece of foil
What resources do you have? You can get thin braid from thick TV cable. What foil tape will you use? What will be the length of the cable? What units will you connect? What is the insulator on your litz - silk? Does the individual strand (thin wire) in your litz have it own lacquer isolation?
>How far does the shield need to be spaced away from the conductors, and what to use as a spacer?
At least several diameters of inner wire, with spacer with lower “e”
http://www.nationalwire.com/frameset.asp?Page=basicintro.htm
I use gold plated RCA connectors from Neutrik - search for Profi, The professional phono plug
>Say what?
will find a link about battery biased cable insulator ….
http://www.geocities.com/rjm003.geo/rjmaudio/int_mog.html
http://www.geocities.com/rjm003.geo/rjmaudio/int_endx.html
> And if I can't find large diameter braid (which I can't) is the foil+drain wire much worse?
The foil can be torn to pieces after bending, and the drain wire can lost contact with the piece of foil
What resources do you have? You can get thin braid from thick TV cable. What foil tape will you use? What will be the length of the cable? What units will you connect? What is the insulator on your litz - silk? Does the individual strand (thin wire) in your litz have it own lacquer isolation?
>How far does the shield need to be spaced away from the conductors, and what to use as a spacer?
At least several diameters of inner wire, with spacer with lower “e”
http://www.nationalwire.com/frameset.asp?Page=basicintro.htm
I use gold plated RCA connectors from Neutrik - search for Profi, The professional phono plug
>Say what?
will find a link about battery biased cable insulator ….
Thanks for the links.
The litz is the Cardas chassis hookup wire, ultra pure copper blah blah blah. Each strand is urethane enameled, no overall insulation. I decided to use litz since I read it minimizes skin effect or whatever. Plus I found good price.
I'm using Neutrik silver XLR connectors, and for the DAC and amp XLR jacks also.
I know braid can be widened, but I don't know if that much. I'll look around for large diameter coax. Maybe Ratshack...
When you say several diameters of inner wire, do you mean conductor diameters, or diameter of the whole twisted quad -- that'll be some fat cable. And I don't know what material to use to space it apart that has low dielectric constant.
So what about the proper wire gauge?
BTW, what do you think of this design:
http://www.venhaus1.com/diysilverinterconnects.html
He says 3.5pF per foot...
The litz is the Cardas chassis hookup wire, ultra pure copper blah blah blah. Each strand is urethane enameled, no overall insulation. I decided to use litz since I read it minimizes skin effect or whatever. Plus I found good price.
I'm using Neutrik silver XLR connectors, and for the DAC and amp XLR jacks also.
I know braid can be widened, but I don't know if that much. I'll look around for large diameter coax. Maybe Ratshack...
When you say several diameters of inner wire, do you mean conductor diameters, or diameter of the whole twisted quad -- that'll be some fat cable. And I don't know what material to use to space it apart that has low dielectric constant.
So what about the proper wire gauge?
BTW, what do you think of this design:
http://www.venhaus1.com/diysilverinterconnects.html
He says 3.5pF per foot...
If you use true balanced XLR connection then try unshielded twisted quad and that's all
-----------
OK, you asked for it ... decline all responsibility ...
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-technology.htm
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/4450.html
-----------
OK, you asked for it ... decline all responsibility ...
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-technology.htm
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/4450.html
VenHaus Interconnect
Hi Prune,
I've started making some of these interconnects. I'm far from finished , so it will be a while before I can post any results. Sorry if this reply is a considerable detour off the original question, but I thought you might find it amusing.
I have a small limo company in New York and have a lot of waiting time between and during jobs so I bought the rig with me to wrap the wire while I was sitting around.
I'm using 1/4" cotton rope instead of the tubing, so I have to wrap a couple of layers of teflon tape over the rope, then wrap the silver wire (I"m using silver wire with teflon insulation) over the teflon tape, and then wrap two more layers of teflon tape over the wire.
I'm wrapping the wire in front of the CBS news studio and a guy walks past the car and gives me a "what the hell is he doing" look. I look at the cable that I have half the wire wrapped around and realize this thing kinda looks like a fuse for something.
I quickly put everything away and when I got back home the first thing I did was print out the pages with the directions on them, so if the next time I'm in the car and a cop or someone from a federal agency asks me what I doing I'll show them the directions, and won't have to write to you folks about my experiences with the homeland security folks.
Hi Prune,
I've started making some of these interconnects. I'm far from finished , so it will be a while before I can post any results. Sorry if this reply is a considerable detour off the original question, but I thought you might find it amusing.
I have a small limo company in New York and have a lot of waiting time between and during jobs so I bought the rig with me to wrap the wire while I was sitting around.
I'm using 1/4" cotton rope instead of the tubing, so I have to wrap a couple of layers of teflon tape over the rope, then wrap the silver wire (I"m using silver wire with teflon insulation) over the teflon tape, and then wrap two more layers of teflon tape over the wire.
I'm wrapping the wire in front of the CBS news studio and a guy walks past the car and gives me a "what the hell is he doing" look. I look at the cable that I have half the wire wrapped around and realize this thing kinda looks like a fuse for something.
I quickly put everything away and when I got back home the first thing I did was print out the pages with the directions on them, so if the next time I'm in the car and a cop or someone from a federal agency asks me what I doing I'll show them the directions, and won't have to write to you folks about my experiences with the homeland security folks.
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