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HarryHaller 22nd February 2002 03:11 PM

HIGH spEND audio
Even wonder what is in the expensive stuff? Great photography, good but not exotic parts.


arnach 22nd February 2002 06:51 PM

Like the reference No. 32 reference preamplifier, do you really think Arlon 25N sounds better than a teflon-based substrate? Or do you think it's because Arlon offers a dielectric constant of 3.38 which is better than regular FR4, but costs about 5.3X times less than Teflon, and does not require sodium etch and all sorts of hell for plated through holes.

What a crock...

Teflon is the way to go if you don't need plated through holes.

HarryHaller 22nd February 2002 07:29 PM

Arlon Telflon
The component density in these product is such that I would be willing to bet that the boards are probably 4 to 6 layers. I would not want to buy production PC boards in Teflon. You don't even want to think about the cost and yield problems. All of the audio stuff with teflon boards has been small quantity specialist stuff. Using Arlon boards shows that they are trying to better than FR4 and still trying to buid some thing reliable and that can be produced in quantiy. To be fair, They spend alot on R and D and features, and cosmetics. You would not believe what trade shows and advertising cost for a high end product. I like to think of this type of equipment as a BMW or Mercedes automobile. I think the members of this for forum are more like people who but Miatas and spend $7000 on super chargers and suspension packages.
That's pretty much the spirit in which I modify audio equipment.
Buy some something used and spend the money on the parts that the designer couldn't at the market price he aimed at. These people are trying to make a living.... as for me, I want to build the audio equivalent of Formula 1 race cars.


arnach 22nd February 2002 08:04 PM

A Miata? no.. I'd have to say, nice 236-hp Porsche 968 for $12k used, send it to Powerhaus, for $10-$15, turbocharge it -- 400+hp ...

Where I live, nearly "everyone" has a Miata (main line outside of Philly) or a Porsche Boxster.

-- Aaron

vdi_nenna 22nd February 2002 08:44 PM

I hear you Aaron. I live 3 miles from Route 30. Boxser convertibles everywhere. ;)

I always wondered what made those giant amps so special. Old ML schematics are easy to find on the net.


HarryHaller 22nd February 2002 09:02 PM

Hey are you making fun of my wife's mid life crisis car!? I drive a nice sensible Camry... Lot's of Miata's, BMW Z3s, and Porsche Boxters down in Dallas. I see more Z3s than Miatas......


sonnya 22nd February 2002 09:21 PM


A BMW Z3 1.9 in denmark ... around $52000

You see them 3 times a month where i live.


PassFan 22nd February 2002 10:43 PM

I drive a piece of junk. Why, cause I like to ram people who get in my way! Wait a minute, its cause I'm in to HIGHspEND AUDIO. Yea, that's it. Who said DIY was cheaper.:D

sonnya 23rd February 2002 08:52 AM

MMmhh yes you are right skippy. I does not have to be cheaper to make DIY... Not that ML, Krell or other firms don't build with HQ parts ..
They just have to live from it. And to justify the high price their parts are often mounted in HQ boxes..
I do not think that firms like KRELL ships 1000 units/month..
Low Volume => high price.
I have the same problem where i work. We try to use the same components in many things as possible.. Some times it is overkill ..YES but we can get a high volume on the parts => low unit price from our distributor.

I think the DIY people use more money on their parts and less on their boxes!?


PassFan 23rd February 2002 02:16 PM

I agree with everything you said. Although, some DIY people spend more on their box than they do on their parts. Some projects warrant that (Pass A75 and Aleph). I find that sometimes I have to spend a little more on the box due to the wife factor. She does'nt care what goes in it. She cares about how it matches the room.:D Take a look at my A75 at Pass DIY in the gallery. The case was the most expensive thing.

May all your projects never give up their smoke

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