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Old 26th September 2013, 12:51 AM   #1
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Default 20k hz and beyond?

How can I determine if my computer sound card connected to my integrated amplifier is capable of fully delivering 20k an up? Say up to 25k at least.

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Old 26th September 2013, 12:53 AM   #2
avp1 is online now avp1  United States
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Look at spec sheet of your sound card. Or play and record test tones beyond 20kHz.
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Old 26th September 2013, 03:43 AM   #3
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Quote:
Or play and record test tones beyond 20kHz
I've done that much. I don't have measuring equipment to measure output. My 52 year old ears stop receiving much beyond 14k, according to youtube hearing tests. Yet I'm able to hear test tones quite audibly up to 18k. Not sure what that means. But 20K and beyond is absolute silence.

I can look up the specs for my sound card, but I was rather hoping that in the Solid State forum of Diyaudio someone might help me determine if most off the shelf amplifiers (I'm using a spare that's gathering dust... a Radio Shack STA-7 receiver) is capable of transmitting beyond 20k. I also have an old Hitachi integrated 40w/ch to use as well.

I want to feed a 22hz signal, at maximum decibel available from the amp's power, to a piezo tweeter.
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Old 26th September 2013, 04:04 AM   #4
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Click the image to open in full size.

This is the Radio Shack spec from an old catalog. Claimed 30k. Only 10 watts. What kind of DB could I expect, without concern for distortion, out of a piezo tweeter like this...
Click the image to open in full size.
GRS PZ1016 2" x 5" Piezo Horn Tweeter Similar to KSN1016A 292-440
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Old 26th September 2013, 08:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peace brainerd View Post
I've done that much. I don't have measuring equipment to measure output. My 52 year old ears stop receiving much beyond 14k, according to youtube hearing tests. Yet I'm able to hear test tones quite audibly up to 18k. Not sure what that means. But 20K and beyond is absolute silence.

I can look up the specs for my sound card, but I was rather hoping that in the Solid State forum of Diyaudio someone might help me determine if most off the shelf amplifiers (I'm using a spare that's gathering dust... a Radio Shack STA-7 receiver) is capable of transmitting beyond 20k. I also have an old Hitachi integrated 40w/ch to use as well.

I want to feed a 22hz signal, at maximum decibel available from the amp's power, to a piezo tweeter.
You cannot require it for listening purposes because the human ear does not hear that high. At 18k we can feel sound pressure but not tone, unless the ears are very young.
22kHz warble works well as a crow scarer and cat repellent. The piezo horn will deliver a fair amount of sound pressure at Ultra Sonic frequencies and distortion is built in by way of the nature of the piezo machine.
Many years ago I lost everything above 12k on one ear and 8k, (due to tinnitus) in the other. That was caused by my development of crow scarers!
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Old 26th September 2013, 12:15 PM   #6
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Most power amplifiers will pass a 30kHz signal with little attenuation.
Some will pass 300kHz with little attenuation.

A sound card with the same sampling frequency as CD, i.e. 44.1ksamples per second, cannot pass more than 22kHz and most will roll off 1kHz to 4kHz below that.

There are now many high speed sound cards that will output >>20kHz.
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Old 26th September 2013, 12:52 PM   #7
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonSnell Electronic View Post
Many years ago I lost everything above 12k on one ear and 8k, (due to tinnitus) in the other. That was caused by my development of crow scarers!
Oh dear. That's not good.
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Old 26th September 2013, 03:08 PM   #8
wg_ski is offline wg_ski  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peace brainerd View Post
I want to feed a 22hz signal, at maximum decibel available from the amp's power, to a piezo tweeter.
You don't necessarily need to hear (or see, on an oscilloscope) the signal to determine its presence or its level. Make a simple peak detector from a 1N4148 diode, followed by a 0.1uF cap and 1 meg resistor in parallel. This will give you a DC output proportional to the AC coming in, even at 22kHz. Turn up the volume knob until the level quits increasing and you know you've reached clipping. No need to drive beyond that. Or if you need less than full power you can back off. Peak to RMS is about a factor of 1.4.

The 10W amp will probably be ok, but for many piezos the 40W might cook it. They can't take as much voltage at 20k as they do broadband because they do draw a little current up there.
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Old 27th September 2013, 05:03 AM   #9
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That was caused by my development of crow scarers!
Can you elaborate on that? How could fiddling with frequencies beyond our human range damage your hearing? Second order harmonics?

Ok, I'll bite... this is for a barking control device. And if you have any warnings I might find heedful I'd very very appreciative. I did not want to mention the goal since the thread then devolves into a lot of OT SPCA "how could you take it out on the animal" sort of stuff.

There is a suitable forum somewhere on the net for exactly that. I'm here purely for the technical questions so please respect that.

Next door neighbor's white haired mutt terrier mix will NOT leave me alone in my own yard. Whether his masters are home or not, as soon as I step foot outside my door he races across his lawn to the edge of his electric collar enclosure and barks incessantly at me.... and any guests I may have over. I am absolutely unwilling to call the police, animal control or, however diplomatically, his owners. If they don't see a problem by now, they're only going to be a$$holes about it and cause more grief for me.

So. I don't want anything too sophisticated. Just a 22khz tone, either pure or intentionally irritating to animals if I could find such a .wav file, and a button next to the garage door opener. I don't want to 'retrain' the little guy to stop barking. I just want to make him understand that you don't fu(in& bark at ME all day long.

So, a 22k .wav file. Played via my hp mini. Probably better to find a method of interfacing my USB output with the integrated amp since, correct me if I'm wrong, USB is pure digital unlimited by the sound cards processing. And the most efficient, highest specified freq response, piezo tweeter.

His owners would never know. I'm not hurting him (unless he inexplicably charges the tweeter and holds his ear to it for five minutes).

I like the elegance of the solution... If I could make it work. When he barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks,
barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks,
barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks,
barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks,
barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks,
barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks,
barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks,
barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks, barks,

I press a button next to the garage door opener and he retreats. Back in one minute to commence barking sequence.

Press button. Back in five minutes to commence barking.

Press button. Back in ten minutes to commence barking.

He'll learn.

I've got nothing but time to do this while I'm working on my truck or motorcycle or weeding or pruning or relaxing in my own yard.

Last edited by peace brainerd; 27th September 2013 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 27th September 2013, 08:32 AM   #10
DaveG is offline DaveG  United States
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Hi -
no technical answer for you but I feel your pain. In my case the owner is cool, but the dog is just wacked. A similar little white terrier like thingy. The owner tried several times to introduce/acclimate the dog to me and it manages to growl and snarl and show its teeth and wag it's tail all at the same time. Crazy dog!

When the owner is not home and I am in the back yard it barks continously. It stands just inside his front door and starts barking as soon as I walk up to my front door. At least in my case, when the dog is inside his home, and I am inside my home, I can't hear him.

But when I am in my back yard, I hear him. I know he wants to get me! Crazy dog! My neighbor must really love his dog because all I see is a crazy dog! I smile and say ...oh isn't he cute...being very careful with my fingers. I wish you the best of luck-
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